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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,

For me the additional cost was well worth the price of admission going to the Cast Silver capacitors. I tried the VSF first a few years ago then compared them to the Cast copper, then took the jump to the Cast Silver. Absolutely no regrets.
I did not compare the Duelund CU wire to the Duelund 2.0 Ag wire. I just know what I like and the Duelund 2.0 scratched the itch I had.
I do use the Duelund 2.0 for speaker wiring also. It is the same wire as the hook up wire.
If you are looking to have the Duelund speaker wire to tilt your system to your liking it will not do that. It is a cable that just gets out of the way which to me is what a speaker cable is suppose to do. Get everything else right in your system first then put in the Duelund wire.
I have spent a significant amount of money playing around with different caps in the crossover. For me going entirely Duelund works best.
I really like the North Creek inductors (8 awg) but have found the Duelund to reveal more info in the lower frequencies than the North Creek. The North Creek inductors are my second choice.
I am working on modding my source. I will be comparing Duelund caps (630v) to Clarity MR, V- caps, Mundorf Silver/gold, and Modwright teflon caps. I have had the other caps on hand for a few months and need to make time to get that project started.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Irish65

Please keep us posted on your electronics cap test. I am like I said finding the right amp and then will start the rebuild. You are comparing many of the best and would really like to hear what you find out.

I am not looking for Duelund to do any tilting (with Silver) just do not want the tilt from Silver that I got from Mundorf SIO. (just not to my liking that upward tilt) I prefer that Duelund natural sound. Copper wire is in my budget but might try a small amount of Silver out of curiousity. Then it will become like the CAST caps leaving me wanting more!

Your assessment on CAST to VSF. I found the CAST wayyyy quieter and with that much bigger size wayyyy more dynamic. I am curious if that dynamics carries over into coupling caps? I do find in the CAST to be somewhat more demanding though, they do not smooth out any upstream problems. The VSF resonate more with smoothing and smearing, but I much prefer CAST.

Since I have one of each cap in series where would you put the CAST first or last?

I have heard many say you get much of the benefit of the better cap, meaning a VSF and CAST is not half way between but closer to CAST? True?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Irish65

The North Creek inductors how do they compare to most stock inductors?

When I placed my Duelund order I did not order inductors. I was unsure if they would be worth it. If I remember reading right in Steens writing's him saying an inductor MUST have low DCR. With this being the case would not North Creeks 8 guage be in a league of it's own? North Creek uses no plastics correct?

I might look at getting North Creek maybe more in my price range. How do they compare? I know you said second favourite to Duelund. Is that Duelund WPIO or the CAST inductor? North Creek is much cheaper! With the parts you have tried you are putting them in elite company. What would be the difference in Duelund? The Silk instead of varnish?
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,
The North Creek inductors I like very much. I like them best on the bottom end because they reveal more info than other inductors. This includes Mundorf, Solen, and Alpha-core. You will not be dissapointed with them.
The North Creek inductors do have a low DCR but so do the Duelunds. I do not know what it is but I have compared the North Creek to the Duelunds and prefer the Duelunds. I use the Cast inductors not their WPIO.
The difference between the North Creek and Duelund is like going from a VSF cap to a Cast cap.
If you were to use both because of cost use the North Creek for thr bottom end (larger inductor with lower cost compared to Duelund) and use Duelund for the smaller values.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks a ton Irish65.

I have a parallel inductor on the tweeter circuit. Do these make much difference?

I am still kicking myself for not ordering Duelund inductors when I put in my order. (much lower prices then) The problem with these kind of parts is they are of course non returnable. This is the reason I started this thread I could not find non corporate info on caps at least not as detailed as I was looking. Some tech guys even said all caps were the same as long as they measured right? Another tech said ALL new caps would be better than your old ones. Boy did I find that NOT to be the case.

The cheap caps were way worse then the original foil ones the Mundorfs were better, but still not as good in the midrange as orginals and all were sold at a fraction of what I had in them. (exept one 2.2 Mundorf Silver in Oil if someone wants it)

The "expensive" Duelund's ended up being the cheapest! I still have and love 'em! They were the only ones better in every way. (than original foils)

This is the reason I still have the old inductors. I really do not like buying and losing money. Since you said the North Creeks were good I have checked and many do like them and often a lot! (some of those are Duelund users as well at least the caps)

If I take your discription right like going from VSF to CAST that to me means really, really good to something I did not know possible.

Thanks again
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