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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
sherod
1,690 posts
 
Qsg is a great contact enhancer, but it is of no use on soldered connections.

Reference 3a is famous for their "minimal" approach to crossovers. My Dulcet mini-monitors have no cap at all on the mid/woofer. It is direct-coupled to the amp. I'm not sure how the crossovers are on the multiple-driver upper models. The tweeters on the Dulcet have one cap and one resistor and shunt. Very simple, time and phase correct.
hifisoundguy
630 posts
 
Sherod...I'm not talking about putting QuickSilver GOLD contact enhancer on SOLDER connections. I'm saying before you solder the part on the crossover board put a little QuickSilver Gold above where your going to solder the end connection on the inductors. On your crossover caps you put it on the Lead wires coming out of the cap. Same thing on the resistors you put it on the Lead wires coming out of the resistor. On the hook-up wire from the crossover board to the speaker drivers you put it on the bare wire of the cables (NOT) on the (Solder connections). It takes about 28 days for the QSG to brake-in really GOOD and will still improve up to 60 days. I think this is the best upgrade you can do to a speaker to take them to a whole new level!....
undertow
1,033 posts
 
What? First Not sure why contact enhancer would do anything accept dissapate like Flux once you hit it with heat and the solder actually would just clear it and adhears to the metal component directly most likely just pushing the contact enhancer out of the way or turning it into fumes...
Unless when you use a silver solder like WBT etc... When you apply it the gold and it actually melts and mixes into the solder while wet and gives you a gold solder connection sheen instead of bright silver?
I really don't see how this is of any benefit to a connection before or after soldering said connection. I have not tried it so maybe the treament simply melts and mixes into the solder while its liquid metal, and the gold is really that much better than the silver in the solder, don't know, but maybe the explained method here is just not making any sense.
Contact enhancers normally are to be used in order to lubricate and "Enhance" a connection point that is not permanently fixed by solder at all.. Such as the pins on the power cord to your wall giving the unlike metals in your outlet and your power pins a conductive liquid barrier due to mechanical movement and fit keeping it with full current flow and contact even if its a bit loose or not totally tight contacting all surface areas of the metal connection.
I have used it on Quick connects inside the speaker however where the cheap TIN spades on the drivers could use a good corrosion preventer and liquid conductive material without having to Fix the connect permanent with solder.
Your better off Sanding or Steel wooling your Crossover parts leads to break down the coating and then solder if you want a more prepped or clean joint, I just don't see the benefit of wasting a 100 dollar contact cleaner/enhancer on this joint and soldering it after. Again most likely if somebody does here an "Enhancement" from this, its most likely due to receiving the crossover parts and not cleaning them before solder, in turn simply applying an enhancer at more expense to give you that cleaner lead to solder.
Not arguing just don't get the reason, use some sand paper on the cap and inductor leads and probably get the same results, or just buy a solder with some gold content in it.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sherod

Either cap is great. I think the VSF are a good deal in audio. You get a plastic free super natural sounding cap at yes somewhat more than other caps like twice Mundorf Silver in Oil. But to me worth it. If it is any consolation I marvel at the sound of them and have long since forgot what I spent. (and I do not throw money away easy) Have you ever thought about trying just one cap like the tweeter cap to see if it is worth to you.

I started with one cap thinking the worst thing is I was throwing away $150 or so. I know if someone said to me you are going to have $2k (in just caps) in the crossover I would not have done it. (I know I would not have done it) When you start small you can get a better mental handle on whether it is worth it.
sherod
1,690 posts
 
Volleyguy,
The President of Reference 3a has already told me that the Mundorf Supreme Silver/gold oil is superior to the aluminum/paper in oil type in there now. The two Duelunds are better yet still. I have already committed to the Duelund VSF for both speakers and am hoping for great things. I'll have them in about a week so soon I'll report on the sound with them in.
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