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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Volleyguy
Nope never had an issue, but I made sure I was WELL above any voltage ratings... And again this is stuff you are playing with that with different power supplies nobody can tell you directly what to do with it.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow

I should say I am not playing with the power supply. (that kind of work is over my head) I am having it done by a guy who has worked on tube gear his whole life.

Installed the North Creek 10 guage inductor.

It is as I suspected not going to be near like the tweeter cap change.

George at North Creek said the biggest change I would notice would be in the midrange. This is not what one would initially expect from a woofer inductor change.

I suspect that is a reduction in boominess (because of no hysterisis) and lower DCR allows the midrange to sound cleaner?

Bass lines are easier to track but the midrange become too prominent. More detail yes, hearing things I never heard.

I have this theory on resonance. We are used to it many systems. Lots of it. When friends came over when I first had the Duelund VSF tweeter caps in for the first half hour they would all pick the vintage tweeter caps. (I did not tell them which speaker had which cap) then after half an hour on each speaker going back and forth they would all say what's wrong with the vintage cap speaker? You can't hear anything just a blurr. Then they just could not believe the difference after awhile but at first they did like lots or resonance.

In this complex relationship between drivers is where speaker designers earn there money!

One speaker has (and this is on purpose) vintage inductor, VSF midrange cap and CAST tweeter caps. The other speaker has VSF tweeter caps, VSF midrange and North Creek 10 guage inductor.

You would not believe these were even the same speakers! The difference is enormous!

This is very complex stuff!

The CAST set one lots of bass warm with great detail and balance.
The VSF/North Creek thinned out but even more detail (caused by 10 guage indcutor) but too much emphasis on midrange.

The CAST in the tweeter caps cuts noise by a massive amount. Oddly enough the tweeter cap seems to cut midrange output.

I expect that the best combo will be (that I have) the North Creek inductor with the CAST tweeter caps.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Inductors must break in like caps? Starting to sound much better already?

Sorry about post but I actually do that for myself to read back on initial thoughts.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Hysterisis
I have read about it but what does it mean sound wise?

The vintage inductor is iron core wrapped in paper and wound around the core is wire wrapped in paper.

Some say hysterisis is almost like the plague.

From the Klipsch forum interesting read and not would one would think.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/38976.aspx

One thing inductors matter more than I thought and not where I thought or in the way I thought.

The vintage is muddier sounding in the bottom end (maybe the higher DCR) yet so far is smoother through the midrange?

I have set the North Creeks on cardboard because I sense ringing? This seems to make the voices rough. One of those things that give more detail but does not add up to more enjoyment? I switched to Audiophile CD's to make sure the inductor is not revealing CD player weakness. In the bass the North Creek is better but might come at a price.

The North Creeks might smooth out as well after all just a few hours. Sounds for sure are crisper and sharper. Piano on the vintage sounds like a blanket is over the piano. The North Creeks though give more HF noise without a doubt!

I did not expect this?

Irish65 I think I know what like about the North Creek's and what was likely better about Duelund that you could not put your finger on. This comparison is going to be very interesting.

For most Klipsch guys that have not replaced your inductor I am not sure I would waste my money. I bet many of the modern inductors with no paper sound wayyyyyy worse than what you have.

So far the vintage is better. The trade offs are much better. Smoother voices more dampening less ringing less of a stark sound. The vintage gives up some detail.

I have wired the speakers up the same to eliminate the caps having any effect.
ait
480 posts
 
I am not familiar with your crossover layout, but is it possible that the inductor is causing crosstalk with other components? Are there other inductors or coils near it? Is it directly next to the high-frequency section of the crossover?

You may want to try moving the location and orientation of the inductor - if it is lying flat, try standing it on its side and turning it to point in different directions, and see if the noise decreases.
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