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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Duelund I for sure can not argue on the goals of recreating a "live" sound.

I listened to the EL4 for several hours with still all vintage caps in amp and full Duelund crossover for the first time and really, really like it. What is it about tube rectified? Very musical.

I have installed another volume pot. (broken sping)

I will report back on the VSF but can already say in those first 5 hours (before) I was shocked (at what happened) at how the Jensen's took the signal in one direction away from the vintage to technical superiority but missing midrange realness. The Duelund's took the signal right back in the vintage direction to the point that I started to go back and forth to see if I could hear a difference.
ait
480 posts
 
Here's a little trick I found for improving the sound of the Mundorf Supremes in an equalizer I'm using.

I love the tonal balance of the Duelunds in my preamp, and I wanted to see what would happen when I put the low-frequency equalizer that comes with my Infinity RSIIb speakers between the preamp and the amps. The equalizer came with the RSIIbs to boost the very low frequencies and help the transition from the two 10" woofers to the planar EMIM midranges. I had rebuilt the equalizer with premium parts including Mundorf Supreme coupling caps. When I put it back in line with the preamp (with Duelunds), I noticed that it added a little high-frequency glare and graininess to the sound that I hadn't noticed before, and removed some of the gorgeous tonality of the Duelunds. I have remedied harshness problems with tweeters in some other speakers by adding a .01uF Audiocap Theta tin foil and PP film bypass cap, so I tried it with the Supremes, and low and behold it really helped greatly! The tonality is not exactly equal to the preamp (with Duelunds) alone, but it is a lot closer, with a bit more treble extension than the Duelunds alone (I think I like it, actually).

I later noticed that Tony Gee had done this to Mundorf Supremes using Vishay MKP caps as the bypass, with similar results, so I figure that it's not my imagination. The Thetas are only $3-4 each at Parts Express, so it's a cheap tweak you may want to try if you want to improve the sound of Mundorf Supremes.
ait
480 posts
 
If you're interested in why small value bypass caps work, check out this link. Check out the scope traces that clearly show how bypassing (and/or DC biasing - but that's another story) reduces hysteresis (straight line = good, anything else = bad). Even nasty tantalum and aluminum electrolytic caps can be made to look presentable. Notice also how the paper-in-oil caps improve; might the already wonderful Duelunds get even better with a bypass?

Hysteresis and Bypass Caps
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ait

Tony did say that the Vishay's did help all caps except the Duelund's if I remember right? But bypassing for sure seems to have people for and against it.

The Duelund CAST are a little tight they reduce high freq by nature, most of it noise. I really like a VSF in the circuit. I find them to be the most "alive" of any of the caps. I kind of have been trying to say that on this thread that yes the CAST are the king but the VSF's are something special as well.

In my tweeter circuit in series I have tried two CAST and two VSF and one of each. I found two VSF resonate too much. Two CAST extremely quiet and one CAST followed by a VSF just about right for me. If I had a choice I would say I like the sound 80% of the way to CAST. (from VSF)

Speaking of that very same subject my feeling on this is a low resonance cap early in the circuit say the phono or pre-amp and then the VSF at the end. The VSF brings "life" (some of that through resonance) to the sound that is uncanny. I would say both the CAST and Jensen Copper Tube types are both exremely low resonance caps and the VSF has more.

It is only now with the VSF in the circuit with the Jensen Copper Tube caps that I can say there is nothing better about the vintage caps. Sound is now "alive". The Jensens are a very good cap excellent dynamics very quiet no plastic tone but like Steen said you have no doubt that this sound comes from a stereo and not real people or instruments.

On Norah Jones Painters Song I could hear a full life sized accordion. I have heard the song many times but only now did it click in what the sound was? On a worn out Beatles White Album last song on side three Long, Long, Long was an organ. (heard that MANY times) This happens over and over with the Duelund parts. Random sounds can be identified for what they are.

Ait I am going to give that link a read. I do understand where you are coming from on the CAST though, liking the more high freq extension. Although I am not sure it is high freq extension. I tried the VSF vs. the CAST on music with violins and the CAST made the violins more dynamic and louder while at the same time the signal was quieter. The CAST are so quiet (noise wise) they are disorientating. Ait I would say give it some time for your brain to adjust as well.

I bet Steen either used a combintation of VSF and CAST or all VSF? Not sure if he had passed away before the CAST came out?
ait
480 posts
 
I just finished listening for 4 hours or so, a large part of it Tom Waits. I really think I like the CAST in the preamp and Supreme/Audiocap Theta in the equalizer better than the CAST in the preamp alone. Tom's unmistakeable voice just has a little more life to it, maybe it is from the Mundorf/Audiocap or maybe from the active components in the equalizer, but the equalizer was a negative influence until I added the bypass caps to the Supremes.

Based on these results, I think I'll be adding Theta bypasses to the Supremes in my Infinity crossovers as well.
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