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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
The Silver foil wire is in.

It is smaller width wise than I expected and thicker?

I am quite curious as to how this sounds. The Copper Duelund wire is the first Duelund product I have not be thrilled with. I think of it like the North Creek or Mundorf Silver in Oil. It has weaknesses to me.

Round wire sounds slow in the high freq. This gives the impression of not sounding real. I am starting to think Pierre (Maple Shades) might be right. I had wondered since the vintage amp was hooked up. A thin power cord compared to most today 28 guage inductor, lamp cord wiring, cheap speaker wire (first time I heard it) and yet it sounded realistic???

I prefer the cheap flawed lamp cord for the mid and high freq. to the Duelund Solid copper.

Maybe Paul Klipsch was right when he said anything more than lampcord was *ullshit! He would have been comparing to larger guage stranded wire. I always thought he was being just cheap. I wonder if this article was wrote by Frank? Tannoy Westminsters? One sure needs an open mind looking at paper thin wire.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0702/Rosenberg.alphacore.7n2.html

I have also read Silver has 7% less resistance but some doubt this can be heard. 7% is quite a bit to me?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have wired up the tweeter only with 28" (2) lengths of Silver Duelund wire.

If someone thinks all wire sounds that same that is crazy! You can hear in 5 seconds the difference. The signal is much hotter and more vivid. Is it better?

As a product much easier than the solid copper to work with. As far as what was mentioned earlier about resonance it is hard to imagine much of that as it is soft product.

I am not going to say much right away as I did change my mind on the Duelund copper.

This afternoon I will wire up the midrange.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Midrange wired to Silver last night. It did not get hotter like the tweeter.

I know some will laugh at this but putting in 18 guage Duelund Silver brought the tonal balance back to around the same as the lamp cord. Which might not be as crazy as it sounds as lamp cord was 18 guage. (I think)

One thing for sure that I did not understand at the start of this is thicker guage is for sure slower. Thicker guage is not all upside. I thought replacing all of the vintage parts with thicker guage (more expensive) would be better. The manufacturer only used thin to save money. (maybe they did)

There is so much we do not understand about electricity.

As far as some saying that Silver having 7% less resistance that is not the reason for the sound difference. I have (coincidently) added around 7% to the length of the wires going to the tweeter and the sound is still different.

Silver is much more vivid.
ait
480 posts
 
I have just completed re-wiring my Infinity RSIIb speakers with Cardas Copper Litz wire, 11.5 gauge on the woofers, 15.5 gauge on the mids, and 17.5 gauge on the tweeters. Litz is very interesting stuff as each strand of the dozens in the bundle is individually insulated. This structure results in a lower AC impedance as frequency rises (a higher Q value). The re-wiring was part of a larger project to build external crossovers for these speakers, using Mundorf caps and Northcreek and Solen heptalitz inductors.

Litz wire can be difficult to work with, as the insulation must be removed from each strand before tinning/soldering, but I have found that a Dremel tool with a stainless steel brush makes the job very easy.

The results of my project are stunning. Be advised that I also built complete external crossovers, so of course that will have had a very large effect on the sound, but the litz wire I used to wire up the crossovers to the speakers certainly also contributed. The sound is crystal clear and very detailed, and a big improvement over stock.

So there is another wiring option for you.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Ait

I was hoping to just get the Duelund Copper thinking it would be a good choice since all my caps are Duelund copper, but did not work out that way?

I have never heard Litz wire and likely will not so can not comment.

I can say so far so good with the Duelund Silver. I still have a couple of short pieces of Duelund copper to replace with Silver. So will wait to comment but can say the Silver wire makes the cheap copper sound like there is flat spots in freq response. Strange effect? Cheap copper seems to favour certain freq? Something I was not aware the wire was doing? I like the Silver much better but am not sure of all the reasons of why? I knew why I did not like Duelund copper in the mids and highs. (really slowed the sound down)

I want to make sure it is real as this stuff is not cheap!
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