2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
This thread started off by wondering why did a vintage tube amp with all foil caps and vintage speakers with all foil caps sound so alive compared to modern hi-fi.

Not sure if anyone has noticed but in Tony's top caps the top three are all foil caps CAST, VSF and Ampohm. When he tests the Jensen I will bet that the top 4 will be foil.

Since that time Frederik had said Steen used vintage caps until he used his own. In testing the Ampohm caps I can not tell the difference from vintage Vishay ERO caps. I would rate the vintage Vishay around 12 if Ampohm is 12.5. In all the caps that Tony has too choose from his 3rd best (Ampohm) sounds exactly like 50+ year old vintage! In fact the tube store sells these largely to guitar guys looking for the vintage tone and Ampohm is VERY good at vintage.

http://thetubestore.com/

When I started doing my speaker people told me "all" new caps would be better. I found only Duelund to be better in the midrange. (again foil)

In Jimmy's tests of the most modern caps #1 and #2 were foil caps. (CAST, Jensen Copper Paper tube)

Reynolds you might find yourself going the way that many of us have. In my mind CAST and VSF do not sound that different. You are paying your $$$ for lower noise. In fact right from vintage to Ampohm to VSF and CAST the biggest difference is resonance and noise and how much you can live with either.
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Wow! Thank you for your responses. I had kept the original internal wiring and only changed the capacitor and resistor. I had been reluctant to change the inductor or internal wiring, but do you have some wire in mind?

Also, I hate to admit it, but I had not thought about the noise. I’ve been so focused on tone. But no matter how much I’d rather have the CAST capacitors, I don’t have room in my Silverline SR17.5 speakers.

But I did order a pair of CAST resistors today. I think they are normally about 12.5cm long, but to fit into my limited space, Frederik is going to make them 10cm x 0.8cm.

PartsConnexion is having a 15% off sale, but still the total for the two caps and two resistors was around $400. I hope that's enough $$$ for caps that are not too noisy! I'm hoping too that my (although ballsy) monitor speakers won't vibrate the caps enough to make resonance become an issue. I sure know the S/G/O seems quiet to me and if the VSFs are that quiet, then I'll be a happy camper.

And thanks again for your help!
irish65
170 posts
 
Reynolds853 ,

Just a thought but if you are willing to invest the funds into upgrading your speakers why limit yourself to what can fit into your speaker?

Have an external Xover built to house your new filter and you can use the Cast. I have been down that road and have crossed over to the other side. The Cast are well worth the additional price.

And do not limit yourself to resistors and capacitors. The Duelund Cast inductors are a must have. As good as Duelund caps are, compared to other manufacturer's, their inductors widen the gap even further when compared to other inductors on the market.

You can email me if you want to discuss what I have tried.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Been away for a week on a cruise. Spent as much time as possible listening to Jazz trio and excellent String quartet from Kiev, Ukraine.

I have never listened so intensely to compare to a system as it was never even close in the past.

Well it is still not close. Violins are really tough! To get that high freq while still having a natural woody sound, not easy.

Reynolds I have to agree with Irish on outboard crossover. You may want the space once you hear just how much is lost in the crossover. The inductor is huge. I had sent an email to Tony Gee about rating them as well, the not talked about part. I was shocked at how much less (high freq) noise came from the Duelund inductor. (VSF) I was not expecting less high freq noise at all. Back in this thread awhile ago there was a link to a Clarity White paper on caps and the resonant noise they ALL produce.

Frederik I agree with you now about Steen saying about the CAST having no (or less) addition to the signal compared to his own VSF's.
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Irish65 and Volleyguy,

Thank you for your comments about the external crossover. While I cannot pursue that option with my current project, I am working with a friend on an outboard crossover for his Silverline Bolero speakers. His project is moving along slowly at the moment but I am sure both of your council will be very helpful when things get going again.

The Duelund cast components my be a little too pricey, but since the crossover would be isolated from vibration by virtue of its being outboard, would the sonic gap between the VSF and CAST components be substantially narrowed?

Thanks for both of your help.
More to discover