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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have been working a lot lately.

The friend has his Khorns and Fisher. This system must have left an impression on him as he was up half the night for the next several nights. I said go slow take his time but he then drove to Indianapolis (speakers) and then to Chicago to get and amp.

Now back to being picky. I am going to get some Duelund speaker wire for sure, just not sure if Copper or Silver? I would like some speaker wire so I can say for sure favourite caps in the amp. So far it is the Duelund VSF over the Jensen Copper Foil both are very good though. The difference seems to be aliveness, naturalness and liquidity. Duelund excells at making you think you are not even listening to a stereo.

Going to take over the amp to his speakers so he can hear the difference. (Jensen and Duelund caps)
ait
480 posts
 
Tweak,

I would think that a magnetic material such as steel would not be ideal for placing around crossover components, especially air-core inductors. That would definitely interact with the magnetic fields produced by the inductors, in unpredictable and probably deleterious ways. Non-magnetics would be preferable IMO.
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Ait

I wondered who would post first about this catch point. I agree... this was an experiment based on effects of damping and their side effects. All of this was done 8 or so years ago. Since then we use brass shot as the fill material around the conductors. Still overdamping can be expected with the non ferrous materials as well. Try removing the ferrous cover from your AC mains and hear what happens. Bends the fields of flux? Tom
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry to interupt the resonance dampening discussion.

As I had mentioned long ago I am still very intrigued by why the recording process improved till the late 60's. As much as I have enjoyed the Duelund parts they clearly reveal that the recording process is just as important. The recordings using tube mixers and (likely foil caps) and Nueman U47 mics sound fantastic! I have read that Frank Sinatra would walk out of the studio if they did not have a "Teley" (relabeled Nueman) tube mic.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have been doing some digging into the Neumann U47 tube mic. (regarded as the Holy Grail of mics)

These are known as capacitor mics. Funny thing it is tough to find out what kind of caps they used? Guys go about rebuilding them and give great focus on the $2k vintage tube etc. and treat caps as not important.

I find MUCH more difference in caps than tubes? Yes there is a difference in tubes don't get me wrong. I do not mean to upset tube guys.

One thing I will bet on with this sought after mic that those caps DO matter. I have heard many say that there is a huge variance in the U47 well no doubt if the caps are changed in such a crucial component as the mic you are going to hear it! If the mic messes the sound the whole chain is done.

I did read one guy claims to have reproduced the sound using silver foil caps. Well at least I can understand that.

There is 3 caps and 8 resistors in the mic and no one can clone it? (I bet money it is the caps or caps resistor combo)

They mentioned paper in tar??? Could that be part of the U47 sound???

Funny in the thread the guy mentions using modern Audionote, Auricap, Mundorf or "maybe even a Duelund if it could fit" Now that I would like to hear! I have yet to hear as good a vintage cap.

It could be possible to better the U47 mic.

Duelund you really need to get these parts in commercial products. I would be thrilled!
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