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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
undertow
1,033 posts
 
I can tell you this, I have had the experience of the 8 gauge north creeks vs. the Alpha core / which are probably more or less identical to the Mundorf copper foils. The 8 gauge could have a litte more punch, however the Copper foils can be a little more organic, and "Forgiving" which is a safer bet for many speakers I am sure. Nothing wrong with the 12 gauge copper ribbons as they are overkill for most any application you can throw them at.
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Face, Ait, Irish65 and Undertow,

I wanted to thank you all for your replies, each was very helpful. While I would love to use Duelund CAST in part or all of this project, unfortunately my budget priorities preclude it. I believe, however, that with the advice I am getting here I can arrive at a very musically satisfying crossover that I will enjoy for years, and I may indeed upgrade it again to include some CAST components.

I haven't measured the values of the inductors yet but was planning to send them off to have that done more accurately than what I think we could do in the shop here in town. As Undertow suggested I did a bit more digging and basically found that there doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer as to which is better – it seems application driven – but the film inductor being a little more organic really hits home with me. I may try the 10awg Mundorf film just to do it, but I'm sure the 12awg would indeed already be overkill. I recently put some Telefunken ribbed plates in my monoblocks and feel that I have some system dynamics to spare, so moving more in the organic direction of the film inductor rather than more punchy should be the right move.

I'm sure that either of the inductors I am considering will be “better” than what's currently in there. I figure too that making such a radical change in the inductor, particularly in terms of DCR, will have a big effect on the speakers. I had avoided doing this on the 17.5s, staying instead with the stock inductors. But as organic as those speakers sounded, it just didn't seem that the midrange/woofer driver had an engine behind it that would let it keep up with the speed that the Duelund VSF brought to the tweeter. It's somewhat of a shot in the dark, but that's what I want to see with my first pass at the inductors on this project – will the large gauge film inductors take the system in a faster and more organic direction.

Again, thanks so much to each of you, you have been a HUGE help.

John
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Your saying you have Duelunds on the Tweeters already? If so leave them, when I say 100% one or the other I mean don't mix 2 caps on one Driver, so just go Clarity MR's on the Mids and Woofs then just fine and leave the single Duelund cap on the Tweeter first, thats perfectly fine. I just would not do some kinda 2nd 3rd or 4th order type crossover with more than one cap in the path mixed on one Driver. No reason to waste a perfectly fine Duelund on the tweeter if its complete right now, and just use the MR's on the rest of the drivers is my suggestion, unless I am mis-reading this. Good Luck
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Undertow,

Thank you for your reply, and I apologize for the confusion - I sure wasn't clear what I was talking about in my previous post. The current project involves my pair of Silverline Bolero speakers which still has the 100% stock crossover in it.

The VSF capacitor I mentioned in the previous post went into an earlier set of speakers, a pair of Silverline SR17.5 (2-way) monitor speakers that I ended up selling to a friend to help fund my acquisition of the Boleros. I was trying to relate, albeit poorly, that on the earlier SR17.5 project I had kept the original inductor on the mid/bass driver. The original inductor used a small gauge wire. While the tweeter ended up with a very fast and organic sound thanks to the Duelund capacitor, it always seemed to me that the mid/bass driver couldn't keep up with the Duelund's speed - that it needed a bigger engine behind it.

The Silverline Bolero speaker's stock inductors use a similarly small gauge wire, so on this project I want to make sure that I give the woofer and midrange drivers a more potent engine. That's why I am focused on the larger gauge inductors.

I have not made my final decision on the inductors, but your experience with the 8awg North Creeks compared to the 12awg film inductors was exactly the information I needed to help me make my decision.

I still need to measure the values of the inductors currently in the speakers. If I can match those values using large gauge inductors (10awg) that will fit in the outboard crossover enclosure I have in mind, then the crossover I have envisioned is:

Capacitors: 100% Clarity MR
Resistors: 100% Duelund CAST
Inductors: 100% 10awg Mundorf film

I recognize that with this crossover I am not going to achieve the same results as going 100% Duelund, especially CAST, but I am confident it will be a big improvement over the crossover that's in the speakers now while at the same time fitting within my budget for this project.

I want to thank you again for your time and help, and I apologize for the confusion caused by my previous post.

Best regards,

John
irish65
170 posts
 
John,

That being your experience with the inductors I would suggest getting the inductors first. Leave the rest of the Xover as is just change out the inductors.

Let it settle in then evaluate them if they bring any improvement. If you like what they bring to the table then get the Clarity MR 4.7uF cap for the tweeter. I mention this first because this is where you mentioned in your post above that the tweeter with the Duelund cap was faster than the mids/bass because of the inductor.

Once you install them leave them for a few hundred hours and continue to evaluate what you are hearing. If you are happy with it then get the 15uF Clarity MR caps followed by the Cast resistors.

The benefits of this approach is you will gain a working knowledge of what each part in a Xover contributes to the overall sonics and what effect they have on each other. Also you won't put out the scratch for the costly 15uF Clarity MR caps prematurely.
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