Your choice of EL34's

Zaikesman, if you could somehow persuade the importers of tubes to spend the bucks and allow the Russians (or whoever) to build a line of tubes equal to the best of NOS, I would be ETERNALLY grateful.

Unfortunately, their concern is more with producing tubes as economically as light bulbs, making themselves appear gracious with offers to replace for free and warranty goods. Not to mention their program of giving away tubes to reviewers, guitar makers and equipment manufacturers.

Better in their mind to build a tube that cost them fifty cents, pay duty and throw away what they don't like the look of (rather than argue with the Russians about a slip up) and still manage to make a huge profit when they wholesale them for $6.75 (EL 34 is reference here).

If you build the equivalent quality of original USA NOS tubes (and some DID cost $100.00 each even in 1940's money!) the cost would be very high. I cannot say for sure, but even with inexpensive labor in Russia and China and the rare earth materials and hand assembly required to build the ultimate tubes, the cost could easily be $20.00 each. When you apply just the normal rule of 5 to 1 markup from manufacture to end user, this tube now costs $100.00 each. More money than some of us pay for genuine NOS stock.

I do like your idea, I mean that in a most sincere way, but I doubt that it will happen. In fact, about as likely as convincing the software manufacturers to upgrade our media quality rather than spending millions on pop videos for Brittany Spears.

Maybe the guys who resurrected the WE 300B could branch out...

That would be nice, especially if you mean Western Electric. They did it right, but it wound up costing hundreds of dollars for the new version.

Albert, with all due respect to you, and I do think very highly of you, I think you are wrong on the 5 to 1 markup. That may be the case on PARTS costs on a piece of electronics, but not on the markup on a single item. I even think the 5 to 1 markup is higher than many manufacturers do, correct me if I am wrong. If they do a 5 to 1 markup -- that is a crime.......

It is disgusting to hear, however, that an EL34 costs 50 cents to make and then wholesales for $6.00. No wonder many of you believe that NOS tubes are far superior to present day production. I have limited experience with NOS tubes, simply because of the expense and the uncertainness of what you are buying.

Albert, I wonder what you would recommend for an EL34 for the Cary V-12?

Kevziek, a few years back, an amplifier manufacturer friend of mine bought tubes direct from Russia. These retailed for about $18.00 at that time. He and others in my audio group joined orders and bought 300 of them for about $3.00 each. I assume the guy in Russia that was our contact made something for his effort.

The five to one markup is usually on parts, and I did not mean to say that EVERY audio component has that markup. Remember that the manufacturer has to make a profit after designing the gear, ordering, sorting and testing the parts, then must advertise and support the dealers and customers and have staff to do warranty.

This is all very expensive, as we are talking about human time and effort. The cost of the materials may well be 5 to 1 or even greater, but that does not take into consideration the other factors.

I think because tubes are somewhat fragile, prone to failure with expectation of total replacement (not pro rated like tires) the markup is kept high to build in a bulletproof profit base. I wish some of the profit was spent to produce the premium tubes that we discussed.

As for the direct question about the Cary V-12, I have zero experience with it, but have heard from reliable sources that it is a very good amp. My tests of various EL 34 tubes in the Tube Research, Sound Valves, and Wolcott all prove the Tesla E34 L to be a great tube for the money. It is new production like the Russian and Chinese tubes and is probably not better reliability wise, although I do like it's sonic signature.

Of course the Mullard is what sounds best in each of these, especially in the high end gear like the Tube Research and Wolcott. They even beat up on my supply of Telefunken EL34's.

My posts were not meant to say that new production tubes were of no value, not even to say that they were not good. The discussion somehow turned to where I felt I had to justify the quality of NOS, something that seldom ever needs be said at this site.