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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
irish65
170 posts
 
Bob,

If a .665mH inductor works best then I would get that value. You mentioned Alpha Core being able to manufacture that specific value. Duelund will also be able to.

Even if your xovers are external you still are going to have mechanical vibration. Electric current passing thru caps/inductors/resistors will create some degree of this. Taking your xovers out of a speaker cabinet is no doubt a better way to go than internal. However, you will, to a lesser degree, have mechanical vibration.

Is all copper created equal if you are using alloy 101 or 99.99 copper? Most of the copper I have used in audio is not soft annealed. If it isn't then it will act more like an antenna and produce microphonics more than soft annealed.
Secondly the geometry of the copper is as important as the quality of the copper itself. With Duelund using soft annealed copper and the geometry being foil maybe this is what makes them a cut above other caps I have tried.

The same applies to silver. Try a copper inductor against the silver. Only you can decide what is best. If I was a betting man I know what horse I would lay my money down on.

Regarding the wiring I will leave that question alone. But will say it does pay great dividends to use a high quality wire for inside the cabinets and the xovers themselves.
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,

I am not sure what gauge inductor you currently use but the Duelunds are 12 awg. So the DCR should be close to what you are using if it is a 14-12 awg inductor.

I have not compared the WPIO inductors to the Cast. I have compared numerous VSF caps to Cast. From my experience the inductor is the most critical. Once you hear the noise other inductors introduce compared to the Cast it makes it easier to reach for the checkbook.

I would like to hear from any other member who has experience with the Duelund Cast inductors. It can be silver or copper.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I am ordering just one WPIO. That way if it is not good DCR wise then a CAST would not help either same 12 guage. If it is a huge improvement then hmmmmm? Maybe a CAST? I have a friend with a set of Khorns who would take any of my used Duelund parts.

My current tweeter inductor is a high guage. I would guess more like around 30?

My guess is the Duelund again being foil will sound better.

I have heard much talk about North Creek inductors and they are wire wound. I found them not to be in the same league at all. (woofer inductor) I have a 2.5mh 10 guage if anyone is interested?

I for sure do not doubt you Irish. I could not believe how much high freq noise was coming out of my woofer before the Duelund WPIO went in.

Irish how much Duelund Silver wire do you have for sale? (and why?)
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Please keep us posted with your progress regarding the inductors.

The Duelund silver wire I am selling is left over from all the projects I was doing. When I bought it I purchased 50 meters. I have used around 35 meters of it and have done three pairs of speakers and crossovers, and some internal wiring for electronics. I am keeping some in reserve for any future projects but decided to sell some here.

If you are asking if I like the silver wire then my response is most definitely. I just bought more than I need.

Also I will be selling some of the numerous crossover parts I have. Caps/inductors/resistors. I have enough to compete with Parts Connexion :-)
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
All this DCR stuff I feel is very critical especially in highly damped speaker enclosures with a Q of between .5 an .7...It has been my experience that when you lower the DCR by changing inductor wire guage you also lower the Q of the speaker system. So someone purchased a North Creek 8 guage inductor and it did not sound as good in their speaker system as a foil type. The difference they were probably hearing was the retuning of the bass with the influence of the much lower DCR on the bass and not the actual material or geometric difference in wire or winding methods. There is a definite influence of all things mentioned but the major personality change in the speaker is the retuning of the bass mostly by the reduction of DCR. On my current speaker system there is a external method that allows for the listener to adjust via hex head the tuning of the bass. Variation of DCR values and inductor Q values can be recompensated for within the speaker system I have. Lower DCR values would I think change the time alignment compensation of a speaker so designed. Tom
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