Battle of the "Davids"......Belles vs. Berning

Alright, Ryno. We exchanged emails last week.
I thought the Belles was one of the best amps I ever heard.....until I heard the Berning. All improvements that were realized when I ran the Belles - depth, weight, proportions, balance, tonality, ease, presence, texture, realism - were touched on deeper with the Berning.

My system (today):
Cary 306/200
Hovland HP-100
Berning ZH-270 (Prior amp was Ayre V-3)
Cardas Golden Reference RCAs
Cardas Golden Ref Bi-wire
Proac Response 2.5s (Merlin VSM-Ms on the way!!)
TG Audio and Empirical Audio power cords
PS Audio P300

I could easily live with the Belles. But there was something about the delivery on the Berning that made the sound flow so effortlessly. Funny, the Belles is rated at 250 WPC and the Berning at 70. The Berning just played louder and stronger and put out a major bottom end.

Even as a tube neophyte, I am intrigued about "rolling" the tubes with some after-market NOS upgrade like tube groover reprorted in the Tenor thread.

I also tried my CD player directly into the Berning. Too early to tell. (berning has a "passive" input with volume knob on amp.)Initially I would say there is a trade-off. Higher resolution with loss in soundstage.

Ianrmack, I just got a set of six NOS input tubes for my Berning 270 - I bought ones that are 1% matched, and the four 12AT7's are cryo treated. I highly recommend it. I just installed them Friday and my initial impressions are this: more presence (almost holographic), more detail, more air around the instruments, better bass, and just an overall better, more pleasing sound - and it is still improving. Right now I am using ML SL3's, which are not great in the bass department, and after installing these tubes, for the first time I am getting musical bass. For example, on well recorded small jazz ensembles, I can easily tell that it is an acoustic bass resonating and not an electric bass. Before, you had to listen very closely to tell the difference (although it did get better when I switched from my ss amp to the stock Berning).

I also am experimenting with going directly to the amp from my cdp and tt. So far, I like it better, but I am bypassing an Adcom GFP 750, which is undoubtedly not as good as your Hovland. I may go back to it if I miss the remote volume control too much - the 750 in passive mode does not do much to the signal - probably the extra set of ic's has more of an effect. Your comment on the soundstage difference is interesting - a friend of mine really believes in the value of a good preamp and you have one of the best.

Congrats on your Merlins. I have not heard them but others say they are a great match for the Berning. (I have a pair of AP Avantis on order and am anxious to hear how the Berning matches with them - it did very well with their little brothers, the Virgos.)

Give us a report on how the Merlins + Berning sound after they are broken in, and try some NOS tubes - you won't regret it.

Cheers
David

i cant be expected to remember all the things i say or do!

not surprised about the berning...i'm thinking of going that route myself once the hype dies down...i figure in a year, when the NEXT BIG THING comes around, everyone will upgrade and i'll get in one then.

the belles--hell, i got in it before the hype has started. no doubt, sam "everything is class A" tellig will give it a boost.

both quality products by quality guys...i have been and may live happily w/ the belles for a long time.
rhyno

Rhyno, the Berning is not the "next big thing". When was the last time you read a magazine review with a 270 gracing the pages?? Please, this is a great product, period and the designer does not need to sell these just to make ends meet. Next big thing, yea right, that statement is a joke in more ways than you may ever realize. Why don't you first actually listen to all the amps you are interested in before you cast judgments.

Best regards,
Chris

Ianrmack, I noticed that you have are getting a pair of Merlins--probably the 'T' harness, judging from your system. This won't matter to you, probably, but I'm pretty sure that the Belles 350a is one of the amps that Bobby at Merlin recommends for the VSM's with the 'S' wiring harness. I've never heard it either, but it must be pretty good or Bobby wouldn't recommend it.