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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Jburidan

Lower resistance in the tweeter inductor maybe. I should measure both to be accurate.

In the woofer the (thin wire) iron core wire wound and Duelund Air core were almost exactly the same.

I changed that part with less hesitation because of same DCR.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
First off with all my experience in hand you are going in the right direction minus one thing. If your using 100% the original Klipsch crossover schematic theme on the tweeter than you will get into trouble, meaning they normally only use a single resistor to cut db right at the input of the positive lead going into the crossover section.

What first needs to happen is dump the resistor on the front of the crossover all together. You are restricting the pure capability of the far superior Caps and inductors your loading behind it.

You need to put an "L Pad" at the output of the crossover right before the tweeter driver itself. The results far more natural and wider sound as your allowing the full crossover to saturate with power from the amp itself feeding it, and at the same time not reaping havoc on the impedance the amp is feeding back.

Fact is I had a klipsch horn that was running hot in the first place. It used a single 2 ohm resistor cutting the whole signal right at the input terminal the amp first sees feeding your crossover, which being hooked in parallel with the tweeter, Mid, and Woofer network actually adjusts the signal to all your crossover inputs in my opinion from listening!

If your using Duelund Resistors I will say this vs. Mundorf or Mills I have used they are slightly more "Transparent" in audiophile terms, and "Bright" in Layman terms.

For example my 2 ohm resistor in the original design was cutting lets say 2 to 3 db. However I found with a Duelund I needed to cut 4.5 to 5 db as its just more out of the signal not damping it as much from my experience, this can be a gift or a careful what you ask for result.

Online you will find a debate about the L pad and its placement that should be AFTER the crossover on any design, not BEFORE the crossover as most generic crossovers do in fact have. Huge difference as now you are loading those expensive caps and high current is really feeding the whole system this way.

Also online you will find several L pad calculators that are easy to use, you plug in the 8 ohm impedance you want, and tell it how much DB you want to cut. It will spit out the Parallel resistor and Series resistor Values that should be used. This is the same formula regardless what speaker you use power cutting is the same on all designs, not saying the same amount of power cutting but the same way to cut it with any L pad vs. just a single series resistor.

Trust me it is FAR superior. I was actually cutting with a single 10 ohm vs. the 2 ohm originally, what a mistake it was cutting the bass, tweeter everything across the board as it was raising the impedance too much at the amp tap. Put the L pad after the crossover and with the correct value and the amp will see it as transparent totally making the speaker balance out to its optimum, and you get full use of those expensive crossover components.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow you must not be using the simple "A" or "AA" in your Klipsch? There is no resistor at all. Very basic circuit. The "A" even simplier.

Undertow I do agree with Duelund being "transparent". They seem to get more signal though whether it is the caps or wire or inductors.

I really should measure the two inductors to see. I am trying to get the measurement off the vintage. The Duelund of course is in the speaker.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
DCR is flavour changes and once I get to that then I will be done. I only want quality improvements. (which I have got)

The friend who was over listening (and buying my old speaker wire making room for the Duelund Silver) owns a set of Khorns think both sides (of mine) sound amazing. (his are just stock) To me the Silver Wire makes a big difference.

I am getting near the end though and I know it. Changing the parallel tweeter inductor was one of the last parts not Duelund.

I would say to anyone wathcing this thread that parallel parts do not give the same Wow! as series parts. They affect the sound at some %, just not sure how much compared to series parts. Maybe a guess later?

Even going from a Duelund VSF tweeter cap to CAST had me put my ear to the tweeter to see what was going on. (big difference) Nothing like that with parallel tweeter inductor.

Chris at parts connexion looked over my schematics and said not to go crazy with this part. Good advice.

volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I might have found my first Duelund part not working in this application?

The inductor sounds bright and agressive. I am going to check some tubes to make sure all is Ok but just changed power output tubes not long ago. The inductor makes the speaker much louder than the other and not a nice loud.

The last time I changed the DCR with the North Creek in the woofer it did not work out well at all either. DCR from what I have seen is not something to mess with. Even a better part will not sound right?
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