Pbb, you forget that i make my living working on electronic gear taking hundreds of measurements on a daily basis. As such, i'm not just talking as an "avid audiophile" discussing "fantasy situations" and associated explanations. There are PLENTY of times that one component will perform measurably better on a bench but just won't cut the mustard under real world conditions.
I've seen an RF transmitter showing more than twice the power output on a lab grade wattmeter and scope get its ass kicked by another transmitter showing slightly less than half that same amount of power. Before you ask, this testing was done using the same loads ( same dummy load on the bench and then both transmitters feeding the same antenna on a switchbox ). We are not even talking about how each deals with different types of loads and why but in effect how they work apples to apples. As far as i know, Hafeez did that same "apples to apples" type of comparison.
Try explaining to a customer why his "antique" radio that he thought would be a "spare" works better than his latest / greatest / far more expensive "high tech" piece of gear that he just bought and shows more than twice the power. Then you'd know how i feel at times. There are some things that we just don't know how to explain and are not "quantifiable" at this point in time.
The above RF situation is no different than what i've experienced with AF ( audio frequency ) amps. My old 250 wpc 4B that was factory serviced could not drive speakers as well as the 75 wpc Classe' 70 that i had. While i have NO doubt believing that the 4B would measure quite noticeably more powerful on the bench, i also have NO doubt that it sounded anemic and kept going into clipping. At the same time within the same system, the "baby sized" Classe' just kept pumping out the tunes with nary a problem and at higher listening levels. Neither amp really sounded "good" to me, but i had a HELLUVA lot more respect for that little Classe' for obvious reasons. Once again, this was an "apples to apples" type of situation with the same equipment being used. The only variables introduced were the two different amps.
As i mentioned, i was simply commenting on the information that was presented in that article. LG's comments fell "close to home" as i had been in a similar situation with the older Bryston. As to my "reading between the lines" about the amp going into clipping on more than one occassion, would that be "illogical" given the statements that were published ??? Personally, i think not. Then again, i have no agenda ( i don't sell or service ANY brand of hi-fi gear ) nor do i feel the need to stick up for a product that i felt performed in a sub-standard manner. How much "weight" or "value" someone puts on my comments as an end user is strictly up to them. As anyone that has read more than a few of my posts knows, i always try to stress that one needs to buy / use / work with their system and not worry about brand names, what someone else likes or what is currently "fashionable".
As to the subject at hand, Hafeez MAY be in a similar position. As such, i simply referred him to what was already a discussion in progess on another forum. I then asked questions so that we may be able to get to the bottom of his problem. Obviously, something IS wrong or being misinterpreted. Unless all of the variables can be explored, we'll never know what is taking place. The more that he knows and can familiarize himself with that piece of gear, the better off he'll be. Even then, since we can't "quantify" everything, we still may never know what is taking place. Sean
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I've seen an RF transmitter showing more than twice the power output on a lab grade wattmeter and scope get its ass kicked by another transmitter showing slightly less than half that same amount of power. Before you ask, this testing was done using the same loads ( same dummy load on the bench and then both transmitters feeding the same antenna on a switchbox ). We are not even talking about how each deals with different types of loads and why but in effect how they work apples to apples. As far as i know, Hafeez did that same "apples to apples" type of comparison.
Try explaining to a customer why his "antique" radio that he thought would be a "spare" works better than his latest / greatest / far more expensive "high tech" piece of gear that he just bought and shows more than twice the power. Then you'd know how i feel at times. There are some things that we just don't know how to explain and are not "quantifiable" at this point in time.
The above RF situation is no different than what i've experienced with AF ( audio frequency ) amps. My old 250 wpc 4B that was factory serviced could not drive speakers as well as the 75 wpc Classe' 70 that i had. While i have NO doubt believing that the 4B would measure quite noticeably more powerful on the bench, i also have NO doubt that it sounded anemic and kept going into clipping. At the same time within the same system, the "baby sized" Classe' just kept pumping out the tunes with nary a problem and at higher listening levels. Neither amp really sounded "good" to me, but i had a HELLUVA lot more respect for that little Classe' for obvious reasons. Once again, this was an "apples to apples" type of situation with the same equipment being used. The only variables introduced were the two different amps.
As i mentioned, i was simply commenting on the information that was presented in that article. LG's comments fell "close to home" as i had been in a similar situation with the older Bryston. As to my "reading between the lines" about the amp going into clipping on more than one occassion, would that be "illogical" given the statements that were published ??? Personally, i think not. Then again, i have no agenda ( i don't sell or service ANY brand of hi-fi gear ) nor do i feel the need to stick up for a product that i felt performed in a sub-standard manner. How much "weight" or "value" someone puts on my comments as an end user is strictly up to them. As anyone that has read more than a few of my posts knows, i always try to stress that one needs to buy / use / work with their system and not worry about brand names, what someone else likes or what is currently "fashionable".
As to the subject at hand, Hafeez MAY be in a similar position. As such, i simply referred him to what was already a discussion in progess on another forum. I then asked questions so that we may be able to get to the bottom of his problem. Obviously, something IS wrong or being misinterpreted. Unless all of the variables can be explored, we'll never know what is taking place. The more that he knows and can familiarize himself with that piece of gear, the better off he'll be. Even then, since we can't "quantify" everything, we still may never know what is taking place. Sean
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