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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
regismc
112 posts
 
Sorry to 'hear' that the 'Alex's have gone mia in your rig. I suppose I'll find
out in my own soon. There doesn't seem to be much out there in cyber world
as to what to expect as they r pretty new. I had some 3.3s in the Dodd battery
pre & replaced the base teflons w/Mundorfs SGO. That was a pretty big cap for a pre, what type of tube pre r u running? Perhaps the larger cap will take more
time to fully break in.

My current pre uses .22s, the same as my amps. The MR's r very good & there
is nothing wrong in the sound or presentation but, there's no fool like an audio
fool, so the quest continues, trying to 'take it up a notch'. I suppose w/the
current info. I should sit on the config for a month or so & see how things
'evolve'. I'm hoping the Alex's 'open up' even more, but as of now they sound
very good.

Michaelvv, it sounds as if you & I r on a 'bit of the same path' w/the 6C33C bottles and such. What caps r in these currently? Your suggestion as to the
CuVcaps is tempting as they seem to provide tone & detail in abundance which
would be a nice step up perhaps, in my own pre. I suppose that since both
they & the Alex's have copper foil it comes down to how would teflon & oil mix?
;-) Modern alchemy as such....
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Well I suggest to all here, don't just rely on one pair of supercaps! Fact is there are many other necessary upgrades to get full potential out of a Duelund or Clarity MR. If you have not pulled out all the generic orange drop stock caps and other peripheries, including sometimes wire, and other Electrolytics in the power supply etc... You will only get a small percentage of sound enhancement.

I just for example went thru and removed all 80 parts in my phono amp, dumped in far higher quality film, and electro caps, along with some silver mica's etc... THEN the final touch was running a pair of Duelund caps on the main outputs with NOS tubes directly hard wired up.

I also did a friends Tube preamp, 100% tube, with 100% built in tube phono stage. The whole thing got large Jantzen superior coupling caps, with a pair of Clarity MR's on the outputs and no bypass caps. Nothing comes close, its amazing, and it had all Mundorfs with Cardas gold caps before that and sounded generic in comparison! There are quite a few high grade resistors, like Bradley's or similar, with solid silver wire.

So lesson is, there is no quick fix without doing it all right. Op amps, or tubes design, sometimes many resistors, caps, power supply mod's, you name it, it all adds up. So as a warning one pair of exotic output caps hooked up to a Chinese special circuit board with 50 other small caps on it that in total cost about 1.75 U.S. will not necessarily net you the best results.

As for the Alexander problem above, that is strange, but as I explained earlier in this thread I now tend to stay far away from any oil based caps inside electronic gear, save those for speakers.
michaelvv
52 posts
 
Regismc , currently i have the mundorf silver/oil in my 6c33. My 6c33 will
be upgraded within 2-3 weeks , so it then can use a 0.022 uF V-cap CuFt which has been burned in for 400+ in my crossover :-)
I'm not in that way a V-cap Cuft fanboy , but they just works for us here in Denmark and we have used them in 5 different setup , mainly SSRP coupled Pre-Amps and mono 6c33 and Kt88/6550 tube amps.
The change in the pre-amps was just amazing. My tube amp is develop and designed in Denmark and the guy who is building them is one of my good friend living 10 km from where i live.
link to his website , but only in danish :-) http://www.audio-classic.dk/
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,467 posts
 
Undertow,

These are made for electronics? 900V rating and said by Duelund to be perfect as coupling caps? Anyway...

Have some bass back, but the highs are still a little thin and bright.

The Ampohm PIO's sound great, in fact much better then the Tefton caps I have tried as an fyi. That is why I thought I would go for the best PIO - Alexander.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Grannyring,
Oh don't get me wrong I agree the Alexanders are for your application. What I am saying is I am just not generally a big fan at all of Oil based caps in components period. I have had Jensen oils, Mundorf oils etcÂ… In several designs in the past, never liked them, but in speakers they can shine.

I find they are soft in bass in general. And they have had some reliability questions as well, although I did not have one personally fail. So I am not sure what is happening in your specific situation so I am sorry if you thought it was directed toward your choice of the Alexander, it is very strange what your hearing for sure.     
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