Counterpoint Hybrid Amps: How do they sound?

I have owned many many Counterpoint products u until about 6 months ago. I have owned the Sa1000, sa2000, sa11, sa2, sa100, sa220, sa4s, pac5s, pac15s, and did a long home audition of the sa3000. the only failure I had was with the sa220 (i touched the speaker leads and blew up the amp) and the Pac5s.

About 8 months ago I found a sa220 and a sa20 with blown MOSFETS (the most common problem) selling for bargin prices, so I purchased them. Mike E still does repairs on these amps and the cost is minimal. ($175)....after repairs both amps failed a 2nd time and in the process took out my beloved Acoustic Energy Ae2s......however, Mike E does supply excellent service on damaged gear....my point of this post is.....if you are looking for a sa100 or 220s for one of Mikes upgrades, I would back that 100%, but would have some reservations on using the 220,20s.100s, 12 stock especially due to their age and inherent volitility

Btw: when the repaired 220 and 20 came back they sounded superb, one of the few amps that I have ever used that made the AE 2s sound reference class. Others have pointed out, wide soundstage, musical, liquid mids, the ability to pick out individual instruments, and voices.

I have owned several peices of Counterpoint equipment over the years. Starting in 92, I had a solid 2 power amp. Bought a SA-3000 preamp a few years later. Moved to biamp by adding a SA-100 hybrid power amp. Sold that setup to a friend, who still enjoys it very much. After the company went belly up in late 98, I purchased 2 NP-400 power amps used, a very good deal considering the equipment sells for about 30-35% of original retail. I have since had them both upgraded to Michael Elliot's highest level, which replaces a lot of parts with much better ones. Michael Elliot still services and upgrades all Counterpoint equipment. You can read all about it at www.altavistaaudio.com, I also have a review of the upgrades posted on that site. I can't say enough about it, I have compared it to probably 15-20 other fairly expensive amps over the years, but haven't found anything that outdoes it for under 20K, which is far out of my affordability. I have never had any reliabilty problems at all, neither have any of my friends, several of which own counterpoint equipment. I think the reputation of unreliabilty came later from the Counterpoint EASE line, which was astronomically complex and expensive. The big preamp (Magnum Opus?) was about 37k, had 2 separate power supplies weighing over 60 lbs each, 57 tubes in all. It had outsourced custom transformers which had been improperly manufactured, bad shielding, leading to 100% failure in the field. This created a bad reputation, and financial insolvency due to the massive debt incurred to manufacture this new line. It was lights out. Since someone touched on this in the post, I believe it was Conrad Johnson, probably their closest competitor, that bought the name and all designs. I have the Claritas preamp, the CJ "Baby ART" is almost exactly the same thing, different faceplate and some different parts. The hybrid amps, SA and NP series, are the real gems in the line. I would not hesitate to recommend any of these, especially at current market prices. If it matters; I have a Claritas preamp, 2 upgraded NP-400's, a DA11.5 transport, an upgraded DA 10 DA converter, running legacy Focus speakers.

Some of you hit the nail on the head -- 10 year old equipment has parts that are not of the resolution and finess of present day stuff. And, of course, there is the other problem of aging capacitors that have a life expectancy of 15 years (although many swear their 70's receivers are still kicking).

I'm sure the upgrades make the stuff sound pretty good; however, I think upgrades, esp. from altavista, are highly overpriced, and you lose most of your money when you sell. As opposed to buying something current, at a good price, you will probably lose very little when you sell.

There seems to be no agreement on reliability. Trejla & Ultrakaz say the preamps were the problem, Alruhl says he & his friend had no problems, but Justlisten had amps blowing right and left.

If, as Trejla believes, the amps are somewhat "dated" sounding, with some zing and electronic-sounding, I don't know if a stock unit is a good buy. I'm actually looking for a moderate size amp for a second system, and to use in my main system when I'm between amps, or maybe just to save on my Audio Research & Cary tube life.

I can't speak on the pre amps and amps Counterpoint once made but I do have the DA-11 transport. This machine is well built and was a demo unit at the time I brought it. The only thing that has been replaced is the belt and the display is out. Some internal fuse should fix that. Now if I can just find an original remote.

I have owned a few Counterpoint products over the years and none were unreliable at all. Originally, I used them to feed Apogee speakers with Theta source material. I actually still have a couple stored (an SA100 and an SA220). Compared to SS of the time, I found them quite musical and reasonably priced. With good synergy, you could get pretty enjoyable sound.

I recently hooked each of my remaining two Counterpoint amps (in succession) up to a pair of Avalon Opus Speakers and a pair of Kharma Ceramique 2 speakers with Levinson digital source and was disappointed with the performance. Both were still musical, but compared to a number of amps I either own or have recently auditioned, there were a number of problems. My complaints were with what I must guess is an excessive "mosfet mist" - worse in the 220 than in the 100. The soundstage was wide and deep, but definition of individual instruments was not as precise as in many current amps, and air around voices and instruments was lacking.

The hybrid approach can be found in a number of current production amps - some wonderful (Lamm), some disappointing IMHO (AR), and others I have heard great things about but haven't auditioned (Llano).

If you have tough to drive speakers but love tubes, a hybrid may be a good choice - or a tube pre with a ss amp. I am considering the latter now or a really big tube amp.

Hope that helps...

Jacob