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Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.

I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek
joe_b
421 posts
 
While I generally agree with what you say about tubes and I have been a happy tube user for many years I would like to point out the following.
There are no absolutes in audio as personal preferences and equipment interface issues rule.
I have found instances, with some (few?) speakers and some (few?) front ends and the right cables, where solid state can deliver satisfaction. It doesn't always happen this way but...and that is maybe what your friend encountered.
tok20000's avatar
tok20000
608 posts
 
Try the Gamut line of amps.

I have heard many more SS amps in my time than tubes.

An amp I recently heard and subsequently bought is the Gamut D200. This amp sounds different than any SS amp I have ever heard PERIOD. It sounds similiar to tubes, and it has some general tube characteristics. Such as it's bass control is not world class Krell like. However it does not roll off the top like most tubes do. This being stated, the amp does everything world class. It would make a AR VT100 mk2 sound well... not-so-good. I am very familiar with the VT100 mk2 and consider it to be an outstanding amp (I have come close to buying one). HOWEVER, the Gamut D200 does everything better than it. And I do mean EVERYTHING. The Gamut has insane transperency and has been compared by TAS favorably to the $30k LAMM monoblock tube amps. And the LAMMs are some of the best amps on the planet SS or Tubes. I would have loved to compare the D200 to the LAMM M1.1 hybrid amps. The LAMM M1.1's are supposed to be some of the best ss/hybrid amps in the world. I imagine that the LAMMs have a better bottom end than the D200 amps, and they are more powerful 100wpc class A into 8 or 4 ohms is pretty amazing (LAMM power).

The one thing that really stands out about the Gamut D200 amp is the soundstaging. I have never heard an amp that does better. I do not think the TAS has heard an amp that does better. The guy I bought it from has never heard an amp that does better in this department (and he has heard a lot of amps).

My 2C

Peace

KF
bwhite
807 posts
 
One of the reasons why the Pass X-350 sounded better than the MC-2000 on the B&W Sig 800's is obviously the power increase. The B&W's are hungry for power and the MC-2000 is a bit of a wussy. See... the comparison between 350 watts vs. 130 watts is not exactly fair on a speaker with an 8 to 3 ohm swing at 91db which is the same rating for the N801, a speaker well known to need lotza power.

I know what you mean about tube vs. solid state. I used to love highend SS but... after having a few tube amps - and a hybrid, I realized there was no comparison and no going back.

I may take Tok20000's advice - since he's an audiophile I trust - and try out a GamuT for myself.
bobheinatz
720 posts
 
I have heard a lot of the expensive tube amps and always liked there sound better than SS. But recently I had the opportunity to listen to Edge's entire amp line including their signature model. They are incredible. Great SS is every bit as good as great tube gear. It is in the $3,000 - $7,000 price range that I like tube better.
kevziek OP
323 posts
 
BWHITE, you're right. How short-sided of me to ignore the power differences of the MC-2000 & the X-350. My friend w/the MC-2000 complained of how it was unable to deal w/ the complexities of full-scale, loud passages. Of course -- it don't have the juice!! Whether it would detail as well as the X-350 at lower levels -- well, I'll have to ask him if he listened to that.

MURALMAN1, as far as "continuous space" (my phrase) vs. "blackness", I don't agree w/you. When I listen to live music, I don't hear "blackness" around the instruments. I hear the space, and I especially hear it when the instrument is playing. The reverberance & reflections of the instrument rush through that space, defining the space & , to a degree, the instrument . BUT I do admit that there may be some tube "sound" that is part of the sound of the space, and not completely accurate. Again, it's a question of a WHOLENESS & REALNESS of the sound. I'm not saying SS can't do that, but I haven't heard it, though it seems that some here have and believe it can.

DBURDICK, a string pluck or the attack of the stick on a cymbal sound more defined & real on tubes to me. The fact that you find the opposite to be what you hear, makes me want to do more comparative listening.

Doesn't this comparing become wearying, though? I can't tell you how tiring it is to disconnect & reconnect and relisten. Especially when you biwire and use spade lugs! And then listening to the same cuts, back and forth. I'm sure many of you can relate.

The GAMUT sounds worth checking out. I have heard the high praise given to the Atmasphere and the LAMM amps, but they are too pricey for me.

The response to this thread has been great ---- hope it continues.
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