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  3. 1031724377

Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.

I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
Kevziek, your response is refreshing. I need to restate my "blackness" preference. Most music's final sound is created in the production lab. There, things are separated, remixed, and immersed in new ambience. I prefer live music recordings. For instance, with Eva Cassidy, "Live at Blues Alley" I enjoy all the rawness of reverberations and reflections, crowd noise and incidentals.

What I DO NOT miss is the manufactured warmth of straight tube systems. It captivates the music in a pervasive web. AGREED, tube gear produces more believable stick on cymbals, human voices, string instruments etc. I use to use all tubes for the love of the music. I just wished I could have all the great sounds without the colored background. I found an inexpensive way to get just what I wanted. With the likes of the ingeniously clean Pass X amp I can capture the magic of tubes with my valve powered cd player.

I encourage you to try this real tube alternative instead of investing in a ss amp that merely mimics "tube sound." I taylor my system's sound by just rolling two little tubes.

I'm listening to my Apogees radiating Jim Brickman playing some sweet piano as I write, and it is soooo good.
kevziek OP
323 posts
 
Muralman, strangely, I never seriously considered a tube CD player, thinking this was the ultimate use of tubes as coloration devices. Perhaps my thinking was awry. Which CD player you have?

I do realize the majority of recordings undergo a mixing and panning process, but for my comparisons, I use audiophile recordings, such as Reference Recordings, Chesky, etc.

I will have to try a Pass amp. I hear mostly good things about them; although I do read criticisms as well, mostly about bass quality and midrange asepticness and thinness.

As far as manufactured warmth, I don't perceive this in my Audio Research VT-100 Mk II. Indeed, some tube fans think it too SS-sounding, although I consider that a misnomer. My Cary is unfortunately not broken in yet, and with a recent move and things in an uproar, I don't know when my system will be up and running.
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
It is my opinion that tubes, used sparingly, lend a sense of palpable liquidness to the sound. I like keeping the tube amplification in the primary step up station. After that, I think more tubes are superfluous, at best. After all, how much even harmonic distortion does one need?

I tried a Sonic Frontiers Line pre amp. It is, as you probably know, also generally considered ss sounding. I sold it in favor of the Pass Aleph P, mainly because tube rolling six tubes is pricey, but also because I sensed the extra bottles weren't needed. The Pass X and the P are clear conduits anyway, and are slaves to upstream components, allowing me to hear the full flavor offered by the front end.

The cd player is Jolida's newest, the JD-100. This is an all metal chasis player fit with a Phillips transport. It utilizes a linear 24/96 DAC and two output tubes.
unsound
7,329 posts
 
Muralman1, in my limited experience the Sonic Frontiers Line 3 pre amps have the best bench specs I've ever seen on a tube pre amp. If the Sonic Frontiers pre amp sounds solid state perhaps the statement "TUBES Do It -- Transistors Don't." applies to a departure from fidelity?
7p62mm
97 posts
 
I bought a used SF Line 3 back in the spring of 2000. The only negative comment that I have is that you can clip the front end. The BAT pres may have an edge here. However; this is not a real problem in my experience. I use the Line 3 in combination with a Bryston 4BST to drive a pair of Ohm 300's. It works for me. I find myself listening to the CATV blues channel at 3 AM many a Friday night. Usually, with around 12 beers in me. I am a happy drunk.
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