A tubes vs. Solid State question.

Naw,heck no.If one were that much better than the other,we would all have "that"--the other would be "dead".Remember,most of us are guys;you know how guys are--mine is better,bigger,best---.Girls already know this about us.

I remember just a few years ago HT talk was shunned here.--Just another example of preconceived notions. Sure keeps thing lively here though.

I don't know. Have you tried smashing up your stuff to see what it would sound like?
Just kidding, man. I am definitely with you. I like the way solid state sounds very much.
There are some who say that it shouldn't sound like anything, but obviously, they are different.
I have always prefered solid state to tubes in my stereo equipment. But lately, I have been seeking to make it tube, because mostly I haven't done it yet. For me, in order to really check it out, I have to actually get it.
I already have a tube pre, but I modified it to have the option of being passive, and have been listening to that mostly.
I think a lot of the hoopla is that there are a lot of people out there that would definitely prefer tube, but they haven't tried it, because despite all the talk of tubes, most are solid-state.
But I dig the way good solid state sounds. The tube guys tend to give them a bad rap, but for true harmonic integrity, dynamics, and neutrality, and of coarse, textural complexity, solid state is where to find the best of it.
Besides, I wonder if most tube guys listen to mostly cd's or vinyl?
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-click.

Nate, since I am probably one of the biggest offenders in that department, I should respond.

While I promote good tube sound, I do not "hate" SS products. I used SS amps and preamps and phono stages for most of my life. I enjoyed them. I am sure that I could enjoy listening to a good SS amp even today.

However, I have found that certain really good tube products(not all) can provide an insight into the music, that I have not experienced with any SS amp. I have not heard every SS amp in the world, and cannot say with certainty that there is no SS amp that may be as good as tubes in that regard.

Tube gear has its own set of problems, just like SS does, except they manifest themselves in different sonic characteristics. I have found that the primary problems with tube amps revolves around the problems with the output transformers, and also the multiplicity of tubes in Push-Pull and traditional OTL designs. Very good tube designs can reduce these problems to such a minimum, that they hardly appear to be a problem at all. As many here know, I like the Berning ZOTL design. First, the output transformer is eliminated, and no mutiplicity of tubes is required for impedance matching. And it allows SET design in an OTL configuration which was previously impossible with typical speaker loads. This is very nice, but does it sound good? Yes. In some cases, good innovative design pays off in sound quality. So this type of design is one or the main reasons that I like the tube products, because it offers the best that tubes can offer, with little of the down-sides. Not a spec issue, but a design issue, that addresses the fundamental needs to improve tube sound.

As others have said on this board, it is common for people to ask what SS amp has tube qualities. They are looking for tube qualities, but usually are afraid of reliability issues, so they want that sound in a SS product.

I have also heard that tube people want the bass control and slam of a SS amp. And also in some cases they want the upper-end extension of SS amps. So they ask which tube amp has those typically SS qualities.

Others try to get the best of both by mixing SS and tube in hybrid designs or tube preamp and SS amp.

These examples show that there are percieved problems with both types of gear, tube and SS.

My OPINION is that, at this time, the Berning designs give the best combination of these characteristics, and that is why I am in the tube camp. I am not trying to get "even order distortion" into my system. I am not trying to "euphonize" my system. I am trying to get the best sound possible, in a cutting-edge way, by using the products which best mitigate the obvious shortcomings in traditional SS and tube designs. It is also my OPINION that the best tube designs, like the Berning, do this better than any of the SS designs THAT I HAVE HEARD.

I have no animosity toward anyone who uses SS products to make a real improvement in their system, and prefers that sound quality over tubes. I do have a real problem with those who claim that paper specifications dictate the real world performance of these products, and attempt to use that as "proof" that one design is better than another. The measurement instrument that is paramount in an audio system is the ear. No other measurement instrument can take the place of the ear. Ultimately, regardless of the specifications of a product, the sonic result is the determining factor. Specs are merely a weak attempt to quantify this result, and fail miserably at it. In fact, if anything, the marketing use of specs has led to poorer sounding equipment, due to the maximizing of specs, at the expense of sound quality.

While I may sound dogmatic and sometimes hostile, it is not any hostility that I feel toward others, but a frustration that much of what I speak of here should be common knowledge, and it appears it is not. I have fought many of these battles in the 70s and 80s, and thought that by now they would be widely known. Maybe some were not around then, and did not get the info that was determined at that time. This is not something that has changed or improved over the years. An amp that has good specs and sounds good is better than an amp that has good specs and doesn't sound good. What's the difference? The sound, not the specs.

In summation, if a SS amp came out that smoked my Berning, and I could possibly afford it. I would buy it tomorrow. I do not let dogma interfere with my sound quality in my audio system.