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Opinions on why this system is uninvolving

I have just upgraded my system in a number of ways from Snell Type A/IIs to Revel Studios; from Audible Illusions Modulus 2 to Hovland HP-1; and from the earliest EADs to Metronome Technology DAC and transport. I find the system uninvolving much of the time. I also find it lacking in dimensionality, find it sometimes hard sounding and I notice image wander. Here's the whole system:

Revel Studios
Hovland HP-1
MFA 200C mono amps
Metronome DAC and Transport
Shunyata Hydra on amps
Power Wedge I on other components
Various high end cords incl. Top Gun, Shunyata Mamba and EMI whales
Tara Prime (or perhaps 1800) speaker cables (bi-wiring)
Audioquest Ruby interconnects between amps and pre amp (about 30-foot run)
Hovland interconnct between DAC and preamp
Siecor optical AT&T between DAC and transport

Any thoughts on how to arrest these problems would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking about trying solid state amps like the Pass 250 or 350, the McCormack DNA line, Proceed or Rowland, but I'm not really sure that will make a sginficiant difference. I know it could change the sound signficantly, but not necessrily for the better (which I realize is completely subjective anyway).
znak_m
labtec
189 posts
 
In my experience, the word "involving" is typically attributable to the speaker/room placement. Because of the other soundstage type problems you mentioned, I think this is the place to start.

My room is much smaller, but I've had movements as small as a couple inches affect what I characterize as "involving". You may want to start by trying a closer listening position and/or different toe-in.

The other culprit could be the pre-amp/amp impedance matching thing mentioned previously. Call the manufacturers of your equipment and tell them the problem and associated equipment. They will know infinitely more than probably anyone on this board about how your equipment may be interacting. Good luck.
znak_m OP
35 posts
 
Dear Audiokinesis: Thanks for the input and yeah I want to "play along". First, you pretty much nailed my listening biases. The only thing not mentioned in your analysis is what I would call differentiation of instrumental timbres, which perhaps you simply stated in another way. I listen to all kinds of music at genrally medium volume for serious listening. I do crank it up on rock now and then, when I'm doing something else, and this system does play loud. But, you wouldn't want to listen carefully for too long under such circumstances because I think it gets hard after awhile. I prefer wider dispersion and front of the hall presentation although this particular aspect is not that important. In other words, I could live with middle of the hall.

I have some flexibility in speaker placement, but doubt that I can move them more than a couple of more feet into the room. There is furniture in there.

In terms of rolling the front end tubes, I'm not sure what you mean. All of the KT90s are fairly new. The OA2s are not new, but the other two (whose umbers I can't remember are also not too old).
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
jeez tuna, you give this great synopsis and then your PS, How disheartening.

It seems to me that Duke has nailed things down quite well. You are going from a warm system to ultra high resolution that presents greater challenges in matching ancillaries. The speakers are probably so different from what you are coming from that in addition to the transparent components in front, are presenting a sound you are having problems with. The quality or lack of the recordings can also play a big part in overall enjoyment long term. High resolution is no free ride, there is a price to pay the piper. I DO understand your dilemna. I have been there. As tuna notes synergy is key and you haven't found it and most likely won't with your current lineup, cables notwithstanding. I think if you are not too attached to the speakers, it is the first component to consider replacing if not outright ditch. I would look for something with a warmer balance maybe between the Revel and Snell. Since you lived with the Snell so long they must have been doing something right.

I don't feel you will be happy long term with the Revel in the mix. View this for what it's worth, one man's .02.
znak_m OP
35 posts
 
Dear Bbtuna: I have wanted to dampen the first reflections and a local dealer had promised to bring over some materials for this purpose but it hasn't happened yet.

I agree with your observations about the Revels but not about the Hovland. I did audition both, although at the time I auditoned the Revels, my amps weren't working, so a Bryston was used. I also auditioned Vandersteen 5s, which I liked a lot but which I felt had less heft and less detail, aspects that I now realize aren't that important to me. I bought the Revels despite some reservations.

The Revels were in the system before the Hovland and I was having the same problems only worse. When I auditoned the Hovaland, the sound got much better to my ears; it could breath whereas with the old Audible Illusions, the sound was constricted and harder. The Hovaland was a big improvement, so I don't think that is where the problem lies now. I didn't audition the Metronome equipment; I just figured the EAD was so old the state of the art must have changed.

Thanks.
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Hockey, do you realize what you are saying? You gotta' know that there's at least one Revel idolater in this thread who worships the spiked feet that the Studio's rest on?

And in one swell foop, you brought their shrine down to a pile of rubble.

I'm not a Madrigal fan myself but you know there is a following.

Znak_m, your initial impression of the Vandersteen model 5's is a very common one according to the rumors. But once situatated, settled-in, burned -in, mated with appropriate equipment, the Vandersteen Model 5 is claimed to be one the most outstanding speakers made. Again, according to rumors and reviews.

If you should happen to read up on the man Rick Vandersteen and the tremendous detail he put into the design of the Vm5's, it becomes apparent why some consider it among the best. Time and phase coherent, every driver is custom made, the inertness of the cabinet, the first order crossovers, upgradeability, the list goes on. Make no mistake, RV is anal.

If you have the means to consider speaker replacement, read as much as you can about about the Vm5's and give 'em another 'thorough' chance.

-IMO
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