Riddle me this...

Trelja,

We are committed to continuing new tube designs as the market for these products is strong. Our current amp is a slightly larger version of the MC275 using twice the output tube compliment, 8- KT88s. This amp, the MC2102 is designed by the same engineer who designed the MC275, MC 240, MC225, MC60, MC40,MI200, MI75, MC30, etc., Sid Corderman. The MC2102 is son of 275 with a typical output of around 120 watts per channel. We also have the advantage of much beater coupling and power supply caps, rectifiers, wiring and other parts compared to the past.
We also have modern performance analysis equipment which lets us build a beater amp. If you take one of the old Mc
amps from the Golden Years and install modern parts the old design will sound just about the same as one of our new designs. The difference will be in the signal to noise ratio.
Our most popular tube amp in the 60s was the MC240. Kind of like the three bears I guess the middle one was just right.
We are of course concerned about future tube availability and the KT88/6550 seems to be the most popular tube and is made by a variety of companies in many countries. To build a new design based on less popular tube models would be a risky proposition. The Mc customer keeps their amp for a long time.
These new tubes are approaching or equaling the quality of the benchmark 6550 Tungsol and GEC KT88s. For comparison purposes we tube trace and compare the new ones VS the old.
In some ways tube fans have never had it so good.
If we could get a steady supply of transmitting triodes we would build a son of MI200 but this does not look likely.
Everyone seems to agree the current C2200 pre amp and MC2102 amp combo sounds great. Now if we could scale this down from $11,000 retail in a more compact package obviously we would find a market. We hear your request.
From a value standpoint you can not beat picking up one of the old amps on the used market and rebuilding it with new caps, resistors, etc. Gold plated RCA plugs are good too. Who cares about the collectors! I am in the middle of a of a stereo Marantz One / Six pre amp restoration now. Let the solder fly.

Thanks again,
Ron Cornelius

Twl- Is right. Companies like AR introduced sealed box speakers that sucked power, and the monster amps like
the Phase Linear 400/700, SAEs and GAS Ampzillas became the
wave of the future.

Really enjoyed this thread.

Would like to see more feedback about quality low watt amps that are still being made.

Sean, I really have to agree with you on the need at times for a high powered amp. Although, this is completely system dependent, there are times when volume, efficiency or whatever will dictate this. Everything has its place.
If you really want to see what's going on in your system, hook your outputs to an "O-scope." You can use a SPL to measure your peaks and average levels. I was listening the other night at 80DB average level and saw peaks jump to around 95DB.
This is one of the reasons I use a 4-ch Theta Dreadnaught for my Vandersteen 3A Signatures in a biamp configeration. Even using the 2wq subs and high pass filters, the Vandersteen's with there 4 ohm or less impedence require some power to get going. The big Theta in this configuration delivers about 450 w/ch for the 4 channels. The Vandersteen's are rated for a minimum input of 100 watts/ch @ 8 ohms. You must have an amp stable down to about 3.2 ohms.
I consider the Theta right there with the best of the big amps. It is the best sounding big amp bar none that I have heard overall.
However, I had a smaller system using 90db efficiency speakers with a Creek 85 w/ch amp that sounded great. It did not clip at anything less than "LOUD!!!" levels. Depending on your situation, you can get by with smaller amps. I do still think there is a place for them and some of them sound remarkable.

Ron, my thanks again for your participation in this thread.

I do hear what you are saying. However, in my experience the new McIntosh tube amplifiers did not produce the sweet tube sound that I crave and have heard from older Mac products. Maybe it was the room, the speakers, the newer parts, I am not sure. Your stating that the MC2102 being sort of a goosed up MC275 is encouraging. For whatever reason, I was not able to hear the magic of the 275 in the newer product. Sid Corderman has and will always retain the respect due his long and illustrious career.

I am a fan of the 240, and that is the McIntosh amp I have most often been fortunate enough to be around most. I would not hesitate recommending it or the MC275 were they in production today, which is probably what a great number of us on Audiogon would love to see.

Personally, I am on record as being a fan of the KT88. I have no quarrel with McIntosh embracing the tube, as it offers a pretty full picture of the audio spectrum. While the EL34 is also a great tube, I can understand that McIntosh may not be interested in it. Most companies are not able to have an amplifier based on this tube produce the top and bottom octaves with the same verve as the larger tubes. In my mind, McIntosh would not really face this problem. The 6550 does not, and has never done much for me. Just a personal thing, but I prefer the KT88 or KT90 in any situation I can imagine. You may feel otherwise...

If Mac did produce a smaller amp, I believe the audiophile community has enough knowledge to make good use of it, and possibley even place it in the same exalted status as the MC240. Again, maybe the MC240 is an amp that the world wants to have another go 'round with. Perhaps a reissue? Might serve as a barometer for the company, as did the MC275 Reissue.

Twl, again your comments are on point. The transistor allowed a lot of speaker ideas and dreams to come to fruition from the 1960's through the 1980's. A lot of interesting development was put forth, and in no way do I demean any of it. Many of these designs offered loads which could only be described in generous terms as "difficult".

Jim Thiel, in particular, has often made the statement that he has no regard for the amplifier manufacturers. Thiel will build the best loudspeaker he can, and it is up to the amplifier people to design something capable of mating with it. There is something to be said for that, seeking excellence, all else be damned is a means of advancing the craft.

The early Apogees, also, were a good example of this. I have often heard that the ribbon was little more than a short circuit.

However, that was then, this is now. Loudspeaker manufacturers were in the driver seat for a long time. Their designs, creative or otherwise, dictated the direction of the hobby. They called the shots. Today, the field is more level than it was.

In the mid - 90's, a small but determined, some would say fanatical, following sought out a different path. The renaissance of tubes has only flowered further. More so than any business person would have ever believed or predicted. This, in an industry whose health has not flourished, is only more remarkable. These people, me among them, embraced the sound and culture of the vacuum tube amplifier. Along the lines of the rebirth in popularity of the Harley - Davidson motorcycle, this group was fiercely loyal and ready and willing to spend their money on a technology most had long written off. It was more than a purchase of an appliance, it was buying into a way of thinking. A way of listening. A culture. A way of life.

This movement led to people seeking out loudspeakers which flew in the face of that which had all but owned the high end for so long. Simpler, rather than more complex. Low tech, where measurement and wow factor had so recently been the ultimate. Less drivers. Less parts in the crossovers. More archaic crossover topologies, no longer requiring a phD in something or other to design or even understand. And a rebirth of horns.

Right or wrong, the numbers of this crowd have only swelled, drowning out more "modern" ideals in the high end community. Speaker companies meeting the new paradigm rose up and flourished. Some of the other companies, Thiel(not my intention to single this fine company out) is even now turning its direction, producing a higher sensitivity speaker(wonder if this will be a trend). In this age of mp3 and satellite radio, how could this ever happen?

I often read about the death of high end audio. Reason upon reason as to how the hobby has already been killed. Staring down the road called the future, these sages only see even darker skies ahead.

Me, I see another vision. One of audio as it has always been. A small, dedicated group of people pursuing a hobby they have always been into. The people are often quirky, and hold on to ideals thought to be ludicrous by most, but never wavering. No, it may not be a place where snake oil salesmen can make millions slapping a name and some pretty braiding on a cheaper wire, and creating a cable. The dot - com 90's are over. But, companies producing gear like the McIntosh and Marantz products of old can survive and live the lives they always have. And, us, we'll keep doing what we have always done. Listen, tweak, coax, strain, buy, sell, enjoy, and maybe even talk about it on Audiogon.

Trelja, a very eloquent post! I enjoyed it thoroughly.