Help with $600 to $800 integrated amp

take a look at the denon pma- 2000ivr at $1200 saw it somewhere om the web for $700+. 80 watts per channel 8 ohms,160 4 ohms. 120 amps of current!! check out the denon usa site.

to upgrade amp AND speakers certainly will bring you excellent results, but i only saw $800 the bottom line.

havn't heard Epos though, but Triangle Celius with Creek 4330R can be giant-killer budget combo. Stretching to 5350R might bring you some punch and dynamics over ultra-soft and low-powered 4330R but that is to see for your taste.

Adcoms, Arcams and Parasounds will not represent too much of an upgrade to your existing Nak.

can't recommend you Classe since there is no good comments i can make(except looks) on this equipment in general.

for jazz and electronica you less-likely will need a sub so you can leave it for HT purposes so it doesn't destroy your music. Sell your mains and get some $50 RadioShack speakers for rears that will work great-enough on cracks and splashes and consider the upgrade complete.

I have auditioned the Arcam, Creek, Audio Refinement and Rega units--unfortunately not in the same setup, so take my thoughts with the proverbial grain of salt.

My .02, since you really liked the Arcam (I did, too), I doubt you will care for the Audio Refinement. It is warmer, less detailed and almost flabby sounding--not really appropriate for rock IMHO. The Creek is fairly similar to the Arcam, but struck me as somewhat unexciting in its presentation. The Rega to my ears sits somewhere in between Arcam/Creek and Audio Refinement in terms of detail and warmth, although on the Arcam/Creek side of the middle.

While the Arcam was my favorite of the four, I would be leery of pairing it with NHTs--could be too bright. I would guess the Rega (my second favorite) might be a better match.

Hi there!

I believe you replied to one of my posts once upon a time (when i, too, was looking for an integrated to replace my Nakamichi AV10 to power my NHT 2.5i's).

I'm not sure that i ever replied to you (although i meant to).

You asked me to keep you posted on what choice I made. Here's what I did:

I tried the NHT's (I tried my NHT 1.3a's in this case, older version of the 1.5's) with a Creek 5350se. I initially really liked the creek 5350se with the Epos M12's. Sounded very, very crisp and tight. Good highs (maybe a tad bright at higher volumes). Good bass especially for the speaker size. However, when i hooked up the NHT 1.3a's, the sound was very lacklustre and lacking in bass. Sounded anemic. The NHT's are not very sensitive and the Epos M12's are quite sensitive. In other words, Creek doesn't seem to work very well with NHT. I scrapped the idea of using creek.

I then went on to check out Classé. One night, I tried out the CAP 151 with a pair of NHT St4's. I figured that I would get a good idea of how it would drive the 2.5i's based on this setup. Source was a cheapo pioneer universal player (300 Canadian dollars) used as a transport along with an MSB Link DAC III with Nelson upgrade and power base 1000.

The sound was very transparent, focussed and holographic. Soundstage was wide and open and there were several layers of depth. Voices were very centered and well defined. The sound was somewhat laid back, but not overly so. I thought to myself, this is the type of sound that i want. The CAP 151 is too expensive for me, so I asked about the CAP 101. The store owner said that the CAP 101 was sonically very similar, simply had less power.

The next day, I asked the owner to set up the same speakers with the CAP 101, but this time using an all in one source - in this case the REga planet 2000 (about which i've heard nothing but good things).

When this setup was fired up, I immediately realize that it was not even close to what i had heard the previous night. I 'm talking about a night and day difference.

I told the store owner that i thought the sound was terrible - flat and one dimensional with no life and no dynamics...I said that the CAP 101 in no way compares with the CAP 151. He then asked me if i was sure it was the amp and not the source. Not knowing for sure if the MSB link DAC could make such a difference, I got him to connect the same cheap pioneer transport with the MSB link DAC III (ugraded as mentioned) while using the CAP 101.

When the first song started playing, I was awestruck. I was hearing 99% of what I had been hearing the previous night with the CAP 151. In other words, the MSB made a HUGE difference. I was stunned. Seriously.

The store owner essentially explained to me that no matter what the amplification and/or speakers, the sound will only be as good as the source. If the detail is not there to begin with, the amp/ speakers won't make up for this deficit.

I am a firm believer now that source is hugely important.

I purchased the MSB Link DAC III with half Nelson upgrade. I will pick it up from the store tonight after work. I don't expect it to sound as good as i heard in the store (seeing as I was using a better amp in the store than what i have at home), but I expect that I will hear a significant improvement overall. I will still upgrade to a good preamp in the future so as to maximize my system's potential, but for now i think the source upgrade was the better option in terms of upgrading.

By the way, the cheap pioneer transport with the MSB link DAC III with nelson upgrade and powerbase was FAAAAARRR superior in sound quality to the REga planet 2000. The two cannot realistically be compared (yes, there is that much of a difference).

In closing, I doubt that Classé will be in the picture when it comes time for me to upgrade my amp. I still want to try out Primare's A20, the YBA integre dt (Which i hear is killer), the Musical Fidelity A3.2r (at least i think that's the integrated), the unison research unico, Blue Circle CS and perhaps one or two others. Creek won't do. Nor will Classé. Then again, i prefer a more up front sound (although without the high frequency harshness). Perhaps you have different tastes.

:)

Stephen

Wow, what great posts. Thanks everyone.