Has anyone tried SET tubes amps with maggie 1.6's


My long time ss amp died a few weeks ago, and I only had a tiny integrated, single ended pentode, 5 watt tube amp on hand, to run my maggie 1.6's. To my astonishment it worked!

The manufacturer of this tiny SET is no longer in business: Wright audio, there were 2 companies with the same name, this one was out of Seattle.

Of course the musical picture is not quite complete. There is a noticeable lack of punchy bass and dynamics are softened compared with a Plinius 8200 mk2 that I auditioned not long ago (of course that has 175 ss watts compared to 5 watts with my tube SEP).

However that aside, the sound is actually quite loud enough and the realism is nothing less than startling. Femal voices, for instance, have a warmth, body, tenderness, emotion and silky transparancy that melts your heart and often brings me to tears. Strings are rendered with a rich silky transparancy as well. Horns, woodwinds, and guitars seem to posses an extra dimension that is uncanny.

As you might suspect, when the music gathers to a complex transient pitch, the instruments muddy as the amp clips. And there is a bit of sibilance from time to time. Also the piano losses its authority as the all-over dynamics are restricted. The sound stage also softens somewhat and losses its potential perception of real depth.

However the sound reminds me of the new iteration of the older British Quads, the 998, which I heard recently. In fact the maggies with this SEP amp sounds better, more involving.

I should mention that I modified my maggies by using large Hovland capacitors, and huge copper coil inductors from Alpha Core, in place of the standard ones, which might be contributing to the maggies all over sense of refinement here.

I would deeply appreciate it, if anyone in our audiophile community, has had experience with an SET amp that had/has a bit more power than my 5 watt SEP, and what your results were on the maggie 1.6's. Especially in the area of dynamics, and low level resolution of complex musical passages.

If there is a not-to-terribly expensive SET amp that might work for the 1.6's, I will stop my search for an ss amp (which up until now is somewhat disapointing because of hardness of strings and the lack of real warmth to voices) and concentrate on auditioning SET's.

I would like to thank everyone in advance for your help and idease which I deeply appreciate.
america
Yeah,
I'm almost afraid to try a digital amp.
The ones I've heard sound fairly dry - I need something with a little texture.
I been reading some descriptions of a couple of products that may possess the character of sound I am looking for - somewhere between warm/romantic and accurate/analytical/dry. The first one is Merlin TSMs. Great reviews (mags and individuals) The individuals, actual clasical musicians (not rock), speak of the sound sounding the most authentic they have yet heard from reproduced/recorded music. This speaker got them interested in listening to recorded music 'again'.
The other is the Audiopax mono tube amps - quoted as "not being able to tell what amplifying device is being used, transistor or tube". It would probably take me a while to adjust to such neutrality - but I think I would like to see if I can handle what is termed 'accuracy that let's the emotion come thru' without the equipment placing it's own signature on it; it almost sounds boring - it's kind of hard to describe but - you know, natural, accurate w/o the life of the music/emotion being sucked out of it. I think it is attainable, but at what price? Ok...enough of my babbling - check ya later.
Hi Dh,

I am following your thinking very carefully and I believe that you find yourself exactly where many of us who listen critically find ourselves...what I mean is that you can locate more or less what you are looking for in reproduced sound...I can say in all honesty that it has taken me several years to identify what it is that I find in reproduced sound that stimulates the suggestion that I am experiencing the essence of the musical experience...

Music is ineffable...I have often pondered on the idea that of all the art forms that we take seriously, and place on a high level culturally, music is the most mysterious and incorporeal...unless we "play" it, whether we do it ourselves with a musical instrument, or through the "reproduction" of an already existing musical event, it has no real "existence." Of course "film" shares with music a similar lack of existence until it is "played." But film contains images that were once "real," even if they are transformed by film into something else, something more like texture and patterns perhaps. Although silent film could convincingly create a narrative through the juxtaposition of a sequence of events, it did depend on written text to "key" the viewer into story and music played live to give the film its pace and emotional cues.

Music seems to be a fundamental part of our expression of what it is to experience life as a human being; how we speak and laugh and cry has a powerful musical presence "built into it." It must be this ground, the emotional expression that is fundamental to speech and human communication that is the basis for musical form. Of course the animals make music as well. I recently saw a show of a certain species of primates that actually do sing during their courtship ceremonies, and to warn other primates to stay away from their territory. Birds sing to each other during courtship as well, and the best male "singers" of certain species of birds will get the girl (no kidding!). The wind sings through the trees, the ocean sings the sound of rippling surging water, the thunder roles like a giant drum across the skies; all of life makes music. It is not merely a coincidence that much of music replicates the heart beat, which we “hear” on the unconscious level every moment of our lives...perhaps even in our sleep!

In any former time I would have to have been rich to summon musicians to my house to play the masterpieces that I can hear now by carefully assembling an audio system that reproduces music with a good degree of realism. Of course in the great ages of music past, almost everyone played a musical instrument and could get together and play music for their own entertainment.

I have often pondered on the fact that if we allowed ourselves to be trained in musical accomplishment, like our conterparts in former times, our preoccupation in assembling an audio system might not have the passion that it does for us.

In any case, I am geniunly astounded that I can hear/play music from all over the earth and from the far reaches of musical history up to the present, including music made by my own contemporaries, just by purchasing a CD and playing it on my audio system. This is astounding to me and I do not take it for granted...ever.

Like many audiophiles/music lovers, I also have a facination with technology. However I think I am more interested in tracking down and "aquiring" information than I am in purchasing the latest and the greatest and making expenditures that I really can not afford (that is; that would make it impossible to do other things that I also find important to pursue). Can I imagine someone who might spend his/her life savings on audio eguipment because they love music to much it becomes their very "food" for life? Yes of course I can and I would respect them for it.

My interest is to spend the least money but to approach the "state fo the art" in musical reproduction. To that end I have no prejudice when it comes to amplifier or speaker design.

If a so-called digital amp can get me where I want to go, musically, I will not hesitate to purchase one. Admittedly, those of us who have had experience with well designed tube amps have developed a certain "romantic" connection with them, and this may well have something to do with the tubes themselves, which exhibit a certian "life" that we can connect with...they glow as if alive and they eventually die, like we do, and they have the look of an older technology that seems accessable and understandable. The fact that tube rolling can help us to "shape" our experience of how the music sounds is another plus.

Which leads me to believe that the technology of the future should allow us to shape the sound we would like to hear with infinite control and finesse...why should we accept the sound of any one amplifier designer...aren't they merely giving us what they "think" is the musically "correct" ideal, based on their personal experience? We so-called audiophiles know what we like and what we want. The amp of the future should give us the control we crave to shape our musical experience to fit our mood and temperment.

My rambling is entirely your fault Dh, your own thoughts have inspired me to wax a bit philosophical. Sorry!

Best-Richard
Hello Richard,

I am currently doing much what you have done. I am running my Martin Logan's with a 7 Watt SET (Decware Integrated). I am experiencing much the same results as you. Overall, much more involving, but only so much volume on tap. It is hard to give up that magic. Clearly, not the best setup. I am probably going to try to find a more efficient speaker to match better with the SET and would like to get another tube amp around 20 Watts to run the Martin Logan's. I'll have 2 systems.

On the matter of subs, I have recently introduced a Hsu VTF-3 sub to my system. It integrates extremely well to my stats'. Although there is no knocking REL subs, the Hsu is incredible for the money. I would venture to state that it would hold its' own very well to the much more expensive REL subs at a small fraction of the price.

best wishes on your quest, Paul
Hi Paul,

I have been looking for an alternative to the expensive REL sub and perhaps your Hsu VTF-3 will fit the bill nicely.
Is there anywhere that I can get information about it easily? Otherwise I will try to research it a bit...the chance of hearing it where I live in south western New Mexico is pretty near impossible! Can the "crossover" on the Hsu VTF-3 be "dialed-in" to match the roll off of my maggies (or your Martin Logan's)?
I have consistantly read good things about the Hsu speaker line and I belive, here and there I have read a thing or two about his subs...but it has been quite a while and I cannot remember too much about it. I'll certainly check into it.

I deeply appreciate your recommendation Paul!

I do not know what your budget is for SET amp but I do have some suggestions...although I have never heard them personally...

Jud Barber makes a SET/OTL tube amp called the Stargate that puts out 30 watts and has been very favorably reviewed. It lists for $5,500. Yes...I know...that demands a bit of cash! Call Jud directly if you are interested...his company is called Joule Electra.
David Berning makes and OTL tube amp that uses radio signals to "control" the output signal of the tubes and puts out a wopping 70 watts. If you read audioasylum you will get a great deal of information about it. It sells for $4500. a bit less than the Stargates.

However niether of these amps have a "tube" sound (I read a great deal of reviews about these amps and I am extrapolating from them) in the sense of what most audio enthusiasts would imagine a SET to sound like. But they are worth cheching out if your budget can stand it.

I am seriously looking into the Carver Professional ZR 1600. It is one of the new digital amps, actually a mosfet amp that uses a tri-path chip to control the incoming and outgoing signal to maintain its "purity." I have read a great deal about it and I am in touch with several current owners (from audioasylum) that are very pleased with it and characterize the "sound" as being tube like, in the sense of it creating a rich bloom (one user said "bubble") of sound. It sells for well under a thousand dollers for 350 watts into 8 ohms and 600 into 4 ohms...that should give my maggie 1.6's the juice they need to sing. I have it on order and will certainly report what it sounds like. I should be getting it in 2 weeks or so, so check back here and I'll let you know what I find.

Again thanks for you suggestion of the Hsu VTF-3. Although many maggie 1.6 reviewers caution not using "any" sub with these speakers (they are so fast and "clean" that subs generally cannot keep up with them, for anyone interested see Davids remarks above). And yes... I agree with David that a good sub like his REL's help to build a firm foundation under the music and also help to flesh out the midrange giving the voice (for example) a more human and richer presence.

Best-Richard
Try driving them with a clock radio! Probably about 1 watt. Surprisingly the radio sound will be quite good, but you won't get what you paid for from the Maggies.