Electrocompaniet owners

Subaruguru: $800 retail for parts that cost less than $80!!! This should tell you something about EC. How much do you think are the parts for an entire EMC 1 mk2 UP?

Ernie, all I have to say is what are you going to do the next time they offer an upgrade (give em a year)? I hate saying this, but I think EC as a company handled this incorrectly. They should have asked you to keep this transaction ($80 for the $800 upgraded parts) private, and not post it on the net.

This sets a bad president for EC. Think of how owners of the EMC-1 mk2 are going to feel after they find out the specifics of this deal. First of all they are going to know that they would be paying around (including an hour of labor) five times the price of the parts for the upgrade + labor if they have the EC Distributor do this upgrade. This is a complete rip off. Second, they will be wondering (if they to have a grey market unit), if they can follow the same coarse of action you took Ernie to get the kind of deal from EC on this upgrade. Thirdly, people who bought their EMC-1 mk2's from a dealer in the US will probably wonder if their is any way for them to get the same deal as well.

If I were the EC Distributor, I would be a bit upset at EC for not instructing you Ernie to not air the specifics of this transaction to the audio public. I know it is going to cause him heart ache later down the road.

I beleive in being honest, but offering up information like you have Ernie is going to cost you down the road. If you ever have to deal with the EC distributor again, you may find yourself totally blacklisted (and for discussing the specific costs of the parts for that upgrade, he'd probably be justified).

If I were EC, I would have charged you $600 to $800 for the parts just to be fair to all the other US EC EMC-1 mk2 owners (or at the very least they should have made you sign a non disclosure agreement about the transaction).

But as I have stated before, EC gear is way overpriced, and Ernie has independantly confirmed it.

KF

Makes one wonder about the integrtiy of those charging $800 for a mod based upon $82.50 worth of parts. While there is a deserved profit for design and development, it seems to be a little excessive to me. For your sake and the sake of this firm I was really hoping this situation would work out, but the rate of progress is really discouraging. Thanks for the updates, you help us all. Good luck to all parties concerned.

Tok2000, I think it would be really bad form for EC to sell Ernie the goods at the expense of his freedom of speech. Just think what the backlash might be like if Ernie turned them down and reported the reason he couldn't get the upgrade. Your business advise is one that endorses a form of collusion and undermines all of us here on Audiogon. Your free to express your opinion, but, please consider the ramifications.

Unsound,

I am all for freedom of speech. And it is not collusion for a manufacturer or even a dealer to request that you not announce the price you paid to the public for a particular item. Especially if someone is getting something AT COST for 20% of what everyone else is getting. Manufacturers do their best to conceal their exact cost on their products. This information is CONFIDENTIAL to a manufacturer. They do not want the public to know this confidential costs. And the public really does not have a RIGHT to know (no laws state that a manufacturer has to inform the public of their costs). So where is the collusion? Non disclosure agreements are signed all the time in the business world. Many times if I am talking to a manufacturer of a specialty wireless telecommunications product (I am in wireless), we have to end up signing an NDA. This is simple business. We cannot have them talking about our system specifics to others and they do not want us discussing their products or pricing with others.

EC IMHO SHOULD have charged Ernie more to preserve the integrity of their product and the integrity of others who are going to do the upgrade of the product in the future at full price. By charging Ernie 20% of retail (and Ernie effectively posting it online), EC has made a serious error in judgement. If I were making the decision, I would have charged Ernie $500 to $600, basically $200-$300 off for his time, effort, and because he is going to do the installation. This would have at least preserved EC some integrity.

Think about it.... How would you feel if you had a EMC-1 mk2 unit and wanted to get it upgraded now????? You take it to a dealer and he says the upgrade will be $800. You say, I know that this guy at Audiogon got the parts for $80, and the labor cannot be more than an hour or so. Why should I pay $800 for something that costs Ernie $80 or so + his time to do the upgrade?

Personally if I had an EMC-1 mk2 and wanted to upgrade, I would be very upset. Luckily I sold my EMC-1 mk2 over a year ago.

Back to collusion. Just because a manufacturer tries to not let the public know their exact part costs, this is NOT collusion. This situation is very much like being employed by a company and the relative salaries. Any company will tell their employees DO NOT discuss your salary with your fellow co-workers. It is NOT collusion for a company to keep people from discussing and finding out other employees salaries. This is confidential information, and knowing another's sallary can only really lead to negative situations. It is the same thing as knowing the exact costs of the parts a manufacturer pays for a particulat item. This information should be considered confidential by any manufacturer. If the public knows the exact costs of components a manufacturer makes, it can only lead to negative situations for the manufacturer.

Personally, I am happy that they solved Ernie's problem. I am even happy that Ernie got a heck of a deal. But I feel a bit badly for other EC owners who will have to pay ECs 500% mark up on the parts and labor if they want to upgrade their EMC-1 mk2's in the future.

I am just glad I do not own any EC gear now because if I did, I would sell it on principle alone. People representing EC handled this poorly from day one, and it does not surprise me that EC is also making mistakes in solving this problem.

KF

Tok20000, Of course you are absolutley correct...in ordinary circumstances. These are pecular circumstances. In this circumstance Ernie was denied satisfaction going through the traditional channels. As such he appealed to the Audiogon community for help and satisfaction. His appeal was welcome, because by it's very nature it helped the Audiogon community from having to repeat his misadventure with this particular manufacturer and it's distributor. The Audiogon community is now party to the issue. It would be somewhat disingenous for Ernie to appeal to the Audiopgon community, recieve satisfaction and then turn his back on them by not disclosing all the details, which would have put the community he appealed to in the same jepoardy. This manufacturer and it's distributor had every opportunity to maintain the confidentiality of their business proceedings, but they blew it. Much like the scenerio when one party takes another party to court, those confidential issues becomes public. Definition of collusion: Secret agreement for a wrongfull purpose, especialy between persons wishing to defraud another or between persons who wish to appear as adversaries. Considering all the details, I think the word is appropriate.