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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Grannyring

Too bad wrong size on the North Creek. I have a 2.5mh North Creek but did go to Duelund VSF. I wish I had even went to CAST. (one of the only regrets)

Treat inductors as every bit as important as caps if not more. Just shocking how much noise. (and VSF I would not expect to be at CAST level)

In my testing it was Duelund VSF, vintage wax paper then North Creek. North Creek might be one of the best out there not sure?

Inductors are the vastly underrated part and not understood. It is the high freq noise that gets cut... I was not expecting it. There is a lot on this thread with others who found it the same.

Of course money is always an object.

The point of this thread was improvement for the $ and Duelund inductors are right up there!
reynolds853
385 posts
 
I have a question for the group.

Background: A friend just acquired a pair of Silverline SR17 Supreme monitors. The crossover is first order and uses a Dynaudio T330D Esotar tweeter. The plan is to take the crossover outboard, replacing the tweeter capacitor with a Duelund CAST-Cu. When I looked in the speaker I was surprised to find on the tweeter circuit a 3.3uF Solen with a 0.22uF WIMA bypass cap, the parallel arrangement giving an equivalent capacitance of 3.52uF. I've never encountered this arrangement in a Silverline before. I also found a picture on the internet (supposedly) of a stock SR17 Supreme crossover and it only had a single capacitor on the tweeter circuit, which is what I would have expected. I could not read the value of the capacitor in that picture but I suspect it was a standard 3.3uF cap as the 3.52uF value is nonstandard. So, with that background, here's where I could use this group's learned council on a few questions:

1. In terms of the crossover frequency, is the difference between the 3.3uF and a 3.52uF capacitance values even audible?

2. I can install a standard 3.3uF CAST capacitor or ask Frederik to make a 3.52uF capacitor. What would the group advise?

I note that the difference between the two values in question is 6.7% This may be within any relevant capacitor or other design tolerances which may make the choice inconsequential, I just don't have enough experience to know.

I would write the manufacturer for his council but having found him to be reluctant to answer such questions in the past I don't think that is an option.

Thanks for your help,

John
salectric
751 posts
 
John, with a first-order crossover the slope is so gradual that there will be little difference in sound due strictly to the 3.3 vs. 3.52 difference in value. You certainly want both speakers to be matched but either value could be used. Of course, it is hard to isolate the sonic differences due to cap value alone---any comparison is complicated because different caps sound different, even two caps of the same mfr and model.

From your description, it appears that these speakers were "improved" by some prior owner who added a bypass cap. I agree with you that this nearly always causes problems even though the bypass cap may sound more spectacular at first. If I were you, I would probably go with a single 3.3uf cap.
theaudiotweak
2,797 posts
 
I agree. One great cap would be better than a poor cap and a better bypass cap. You can also mechanically direct couple flat caps like the Duelund some Jupiter's and the Clarity Cap Dtac series. This method will move resonant energy off the cap and the crossover mounting surface much faster than mounting with glue or silicon and ties.. Tom
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Salectric,

Thank you so much for your prompt and helpful reply. Your reply was spot-on for the help I needed. I'll indeed go with the single 3.3uf arrangement in the new crossover.

I didn't ask the gentleman from whom we obtained the speakers if he was the original owner. He didn't seem like the sort who would modify the crossover, but one never knows. I suspect though that you are correct that someone other than Alan Yun (Silverline designer) added that bypass cap.

There's another little oddity about the speaker: the internal wiring was been doubled, that is, two conductors have been twisted together on all of the connections. From having modified the crossover in a pair of Silverline SR17.5 monitors (I used Duelund VSF-Cu) and my Silverline Bolero speakers (Duelund CAST-Cu) I recognize the wire as what Alan used in those two speakers, but he only used single conductors for the connections. The picture of the stock crossover I found on the internet also used only single conductors. One more thing, whoever mounted the resistor, or re-mounted it as the case may be, must have lost control of the hot glue gun - what a big glob! I've never seen Alan be so sloppy before.

Thanks again for your help,
Cheers,

John
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