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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
salectric
755 posts
 
VPN, I am not Tom but I have some suggestions. First, while placement is important, I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all generalizations to be made. In my case, with a Duelund CAST crossover cap, I started out with 3 brass cones under its flat surface. This combination added some life and speed which was necessary at first because the cap starts out rather dark and lifeless. As it broke in, I tried other arrangements and for a while liked having just 1 cone close to one edge of the cap leaving the other side of the cap touching the mounting surface at just one point. That worked fine for a while but eventually I went to 3 small cubes of Baltic Birch plywood each one about 3/4" on a side. That gave to my ears the most natural balance. So you need to try different supports but be prepared to reach different conclusions as to what sounds best as the CAST cap breaks in.

For my big North Creek inductors, I used the same 3 cube supports but the mounting arrangement did not make as much difference.
vn101606
73 posts
 
Salectric, Thanks. My components are probably quite broken in, first several days in the cable cooker and then many hours in the crossover.

I see your point. It would take a while to try all the alternatives given the high number for caps and inductors, but worth trying.
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Vicente look me up and drop me a note at tone acoustics.
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Wow I just read page #48 and have not read page #49!

I step out for a little while and Holy Smokes lots of action!

Just at the part about John K. (sorry if I say something in page #49!)

"If I mod'ed it it must be better". (posted by Johnk)

That is EXACTLY how this thread started! I swapped out one whole network (one speaker) and left the other original.

I (like most) was quite happy with my handy work and I brought my wife down for a listen as an unbiased opinion. She was totally impressed! She thought the difference was huge from the two networks and said "you must really be thrilled to get such an improvement"? (not having done any of this before)

The problem was she was picking the vintage foil in oil network NOT the new poly caps!...

I knew at that moment things were not going to be clear money was going to be spent and sometimes wasted and this was going to have to be wrote off as interesting experiment.

I knew I was going to have to listen lots.

Some did not like the mod one speaker listen for a long time if good do the mod to the other carry on method but as JohnK mentioned you can not test from memory.

In time (and after some failures) I got better at what would work and gained some understanding. As one's understanding grows so does the frustration with most new gear... (but I do know why high end parts are not used)

This thread is about people's opinions for the most part with nothing sell.

I have said (and is deserved) a lot of good about Duelund parts. Oddly enough though I am one who has had a Duelund CAST cap leak and in reality Duelund is the ONLY capacitor I have had fail.

Now Duelund will give a refund which leaves me with one CAST at the value... (not a common value)

I am using the store credit for some Jupiter caps, quite likely. I have to just see if they fit. My pace of alterations has slowed in recent years. Am I upset? No! I am not even looking at new gear which is a good thing! (very happy)

Johnk has been on this thread for a long time and has made some valid points but I believe he is a horn speaker builder.

I have said on here many times I would not want to build speakers with Duelund parts and try and make money!

Do the parts matter? YES! Would I want to use them build speakers to make money? NO!
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Interesting to read page #49.

Much talk about inductors. Oddly enough the part most will "draw the line" on and to be honest so would have I...

I have tried the vintage wax paper, North Creek and Duelund VSF. The North Creek was of a lower DCR and to me that is/was dangerous in changing tonal balance. With inductors my opinion is they MUST have a way of dealing with resonance.

Inductors make a BIG difference but do not get the hype of caps and resistors. I am not sure why? (even my vintage speakers used wax to deal with resonance)

The shocking thing was the Duelund gave a big high freq noise reduction in the woofer. I just did not expect that... (I was thinking more bass which it did but less noise?)

Maybe the biggest upside surprise to me was the money I spent on the inductors and have wondered many times if I should have got CAST...

That being said inductors are one off parts that are expensive. Mine are $559 each at current prices. The CAST ones are $1118 each all plus tax here... I paid a fair bit less...

As is being said on here I would not want to put $2k+ in inductors for parts for speakers to sell!!!

I think Jupiter could get into this making a high quality wax paper inductor. It would blow away anything else out there... (save CAST maybe)
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