Let's talk tube amps - no ss discussion

I also have the Sonic Frontiers Power 3 SE's. The power 3 series is an excellent buy at this time as the prices for the standard 3's are in the $3000-$3500 range used. These amps are very neutral and do provide power on par with many SS amps. I am using with the Hovland preamp and the soundstage is very wide, the midrange is extremely clear and alive, and the extremes do not seem rolled off at all. I agree with Alfina that these are not the amps for a lush tubey sound. If you are looking for neutrality they are pretty good at it.

Manley amps for the power you need will certainly be beyond your budget except the integrated one.

On the other hand if you have 85dB monitors with small woofer and small room you might realy get away with 60W/ch

Otherwise you can get VTL MB185 or MB225 signature used. They're good with low efficiency and heavy speakers and stable to nearly any impedance swings.

Marakanetz-- let's put budget aside for the time being and talk more about the Manelys. The new Mahi Mahi sound great! But, I do need a little more power. Have you heard their 50 watt monoblocks or the 100 watt integrated?

I heard both 50W and 100W integrated amps and they're with no doubdt excellent sounding amps. Havn't heard 50W monos though but I guess they're clones of integrated EveAnna's with 4 EL84 power tubes per side.
VTL and Manleys are built on the same electronic design(meaning internal i guess).
While I had a great chance to look-up and study the VTL design I can only guess that Manleys benefit from higher quality parts, chasis AND mainly from built quality(i.e. circuit protection that is basically routine for any of the tube amplifiers or pre-s but not implemented though in most of VTL models) V.S. VTLs and the price therefore higher.

IMHO VTL signature line starting from MB185 to MB225 can compete with less-powerful Manleys depending again on speaker and room you're dealing with.

Many thanks for all your input. I will start a new thread looking at Manley, Consonance and your choices.