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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Merry Christmas to all.

I have much to read on here to "catch up".

I guess we all have different preferences when listening and what we can forgive. Grannyring finds the CAST too tipped upward for warmth. In comparison to Jupiter I would not argue. I have had to turn up the treble in my system when using the Jupiter.

Wax clearly tilts the sound down to me and is dull. I find a loss of high frequency energy and a loss of realism. I have yet to install the Duelund RS which is wax as well.

They could be of the same as Jupiter. I think they will have more energy due to the much larger size but might tilt sound down?

Oil is livelier but (to me) more realistic. To me oil lets the signal flow and really on the high freq and wax is very good at noise reduction. I am sure wax by nature would have less noise than oil.

I also find the Jupiter's not to be of real world dynamics. This could be a simple fix a MUCH bigger capacitor. If the Jupiter was 5x bigger??? Hmmm...

This is not to say I do not like Jupiter caps they are very quiet. To me the best I have heard so far is CAST.

Clearly though Duelund thought something good of wax if they used it in the RS series. I have used my vintage tweeter inductor over the Duelund VSF I have. My gut feeling is oil is better but harder to control resonance and wax is a cheap way to do it, but at a cost of liveliness.

I will try and get the RS installed tomorrow... That way it can be wax vs. oil.

Duelund vs. Duelund (unfortunately from memory of CAST) I do know about how much better CAST was than Jupiter Copper Paper Tube.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,517 posts
 
Volley, I assume you let the Jupiters break in for some 200 hours? They do sound more laid back at first, but open up nicely over time. They are more open sounding with more air than the CAST in my system. Last thing I would ever say is I need to turn up the treble with them. I can't even get my mind around that reaction? My system is very resolved however.

I can understand the difference in perceived dynamics between the two caps.

My comments are based on use in tube electronics, DAC's and speakers where I have compared both. I am referring to the non-pancake style CAST caps in my comments also.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,517 posts
 
It may be that in an initially "warmer" or more forgiving system the CAST work nicely to deliver the end sound. In an already highly resolved set up the Jupiter caps work nicely. Just my attempt to understand our separate observations Volley.
salectric
755 posts
 
To my ears, the CAST caps are all a bit lacking in air and high-frequency extension. I posted that several months ago in this thread and I still feel that way. That is true of the 100v pancake CAST caps as well as the high-voltage cylindrical CAST caps.

I have a theory that the CAST caps may be better suited for solid-state based systems than tubes. I can see how the HF characteristic might do a good job taming the HF emphasis of most solid-state amps.

For my money, however, I choose V-Caps, both TFTF and CuTF, over the CAST. They provide the treble qualities that I need and as a bonus have more subtle inner detail than the CAST.

Of course, it's possible that the all-silver CAST or the new hybrid copper-silver CAST caps may provide the air, delicacy and sparkle missing from the copper CAST. But somebody else will have to investigate those options. I have decided to stop shipping money to Denmark.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,517 posts
 
Ya, the price of those silver caps would be about as much as the speakers themselves:)
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