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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
justubes2
203 posts
 
Volleyguy,

I had my share of oily leaking caps and broken connection with the cast. It's alot of money. You know the casts probably better.

They do some magic in the midrange that the close competitors cannot do. Naturalness to the sound starting from the midrange and not perfect in any way.

The casts is organic and midrange centric, doing the tube vocal trick so well. The hybrid come in to take up the slack in areas in the highs, bass depth and detail that ..... other premium caps do better.

I have just ordered the silver foil to bypass the cast (copper) and have excellent result using mundorf silver oils which came in as a bandaid to add openness, detail, speed and slam to the casts. The forte of the cast is the glowing midrange which ...NO other capacitor can give.

It just gets me thinking how the $30 0.1uf mundorf add so much more to the cast costing 10X the price. Making it sound more like the Jupiter copper foils, whilst having the midrange that the jupiter lacks. IMO, the jupiter does the detail, openness and definition way more acceptably.

the only reason it stays is that midrange presence, almost 300b tube like. but with all the difficiencies of the 300b tube sound.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,645 posts
 
CAST are great caps, but in my system I found them too tipped up in the upper mids and lacking in deep bass compared to the Jupiter copper foil caps. I found the Jupiter caps evenly balanced from top to bottom with no exaggerated upper mids.

I would still use them in the right system to arrive at a net sound I desire.
justubes2
203 posts
 
Grannyring, the midrange texture and presence is undisputedly"The Best".

Strange that you found it tipped up, as i clearly confirmed testing in separate setups, it is midrange centric and tipped up in the upper mids. I found the cast resistors caused the uppermids to be tipped up.

The Jupiter coppers are very nicely balanced overall, but i don't exactly find the "special" in any way.

I have be trying to bypassing the 1uf cu duelund and have found a 0.1 mundorf SIO to be nice overall - more highs, details, faster with better bass. The 0.01 vcap tftf has extremely deep bass and clear but causes the midrange to go flat!

I will be trying a SGO bypass, on order as the duelund 0.01 silver foil bypass are out of stock of another several weeks. I wonder if this will be the best way to extract and balance the sound of the Cast Cu.

I happened to come accross last night a dutch (i think) reveiw of the new hubrid Duelund. It,s basically half a CU cap connected with another half(at least they say) to form 1 cap of the desired value. Orientation of silver +ve and cu -ve is recommended.

It was still found to be lacking in the exact same areas discussed above in my findings, but improved upon the CU. It still did not bring out sufficient speed, highs, deep bass. The review found the opposite orientation with silver portion out to be slighter better, giving more of the silver tone.

I think if it works, a bypass with a small silverfoil cap might be the answer. Sadly, to retain much of the Cu's tone and bring out the highs will inevitably cause the loss in the tone and analogue smoothness of the CU cast. Any cap which opens up the staging and frequency extremes will disturb this delicate balance. Especially a pure silver foil bypass, any comments?

The review ended that all duelund was not the way and he has a jensen pure silverfoil to replace the 2nd set of CU cast in his preamp stage and found it to be the best combination.

The Duelund or full Duelund will still be best for certain types of music, i.e vocals, chamber and classical.

So i may end the quest for the perfect cap and live with a small bypass. Sadly, didnt couldnt get myhands on the new duelund silverfoils to test.
justubes2
203 posts
 
Sorry, i meant "not tipped up in the upper midrange"
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
I think we are all exploring different ways to get the sound we want. I can see how the Duelund copper cast can leave some listeners wanting. There are so many variations speakers, room, cables, output tube, driver tube, power supply caps...and the list goes on and on. I've have my own capacitor journey. One way to get rid of a capacitor would be to build a direct coupled amp. We DIYers are fortunate to be able to make these changes to our equipment for comparatively small costs.
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