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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
Thanks Justubes for the detailed response. I have printed this and will refer to it often.
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Justubes2

Just checking up on the thread been a month or so.

I do want to clarify on the CAST's leaking I was given a full refund. It was a bad batch I hear? I really just wanted them replaced.

With that money refund I tried Jupiter Copper Foil and the leads broke off a couple of those caps. I am more concerned about build quality of the Jupiter caps as the leads are very fragile. These were small value .01uf caps.

With the rest of the money I replaced the Jupiter with Duelund RS and like them very much. I could not do a direct comparison to CAST vs. RS as the CAST had leaked and were gone.

I will have to take Tony Gee's word on this one that the CAST's are a blacker background.

To me the CAST's midrange (that you mentioned them being very good) is key. If you do not get the midrange correct it always sounds like HiFi?

After all these years of testing and listening (to what some would call small detail) there has been one big negative I have become much more sensitive and frustratingly so. When my CAST cap started to leak it was not seeing the oil that tipped me off to a problem it was I could hear something wrong! (took off bottom of amp and sure enough CAST was leaking so much for theory one can not hear a difference in caps!) At Starbucks the other day I literally could not stay and read some magazines and had to go outside on the patio. The natural sounds outside do not bother me the horrific sound system in Starbucks is literally nails down a chalkboard. (literally 90% just noise)

Cancelled Sirius radio in the car horrible sound, can not listen to compressed radio stations, about half of CD's are unbearable in car. In the car with my teenage daughter we play dad guess the bit rate of the recording on her iPhone. I guess it's great the kids think dad is amazing! (very accurate guess)

Even my bedroom system (which is still pretty good filled with VCap cuft, Jupiter and Jensen caps) I can not listen to long as I still have vintage caps in the tweeters and they are crap. (very noisy)

justubes2 you have given me the idea to replace the tweeter cap (in bedroom system) with a sitting around Mundorf Silver in oil I already have. To me I remember an artificial tilt to the sound with that cap. (upwards)

But I do like to revisit things to see if I feel the same years later.

I also am using CAST followed by VSF in the tweeters in main system and would like to revist that to maybe CAST CAST. (reason is less noise)

To anyone who stumbles on this thread that is your warning. It sounds good to hear the difference in what some would say something as trivial a cap until you understand it's full implications.

I think there is something with age and noise. As we age we want to listen to music (and enjoy) but the tolerances for noise really decrease.
justubes2
203 posts
 
Hi Volleyguy,

I just stumbled on the update on the jupiter copper foil review by Tony Gee and he gave it a very good rating.

I just so happened that i ws toying between the jupiter and cutf on my digital input and concluded the same, that the jupiter was one of the most balanced caps that does all areas well enough to make it my universal cap to use. It does'nt beat say the cast, cutf or tftf in certain areas, but does everything very well. I have a very itchy feeling it would work very well in the tweeter blocking function.

I rolled the vcap tftf, cast, mundorf silver oils and silver gold.

The vcap tftf was the most extended and linear sounding, the silver oils were a very sparkly but also had a disorganized and slightly messy upfront staging. The silver golds were strange, had good depth, calmness and quite natural sounding, ultimately lacking extension. The cast were good, detailed, natural but actually feel it strength radiates from the midrange out but fall short on the top amd bottom frequencies.

The cast works for me as the this a small value cap in my tweeter crossover which i left the tftf there and believe it has a good synergy with the cast not making it too dull sounding. I wpuld strongly feel, full cast would not be what i want, it probably works great for a dull sounding setup.

Even the mundorf silver or silver mix definately has more detail in the higher registers.

Again, the choice of solder plays a good part in getting caps to work synergistically in any given application, if you have a chance, wbt, oyaide solder works "better" with a cast of maybe your RS. I have just tested the mundorf supreme sikver gold solder, i leaves a very similar sonic characteristic as a cast cap. To my ears, lacking it both the extension and gaves a nicer midrange.

You might want to look into psu and grounding to get less noise. Focussing just on swapping caps in the tweeter cannot be a cure all and you may have to sacrifice some more sparkle by adding 2 casts.

I now focus on getting a balanced sound over focusing on getting great mids with one cap choice, or more brilliance and detail from another cap choice etc.

The virture of the cap with the best midrange, always sacrifices the openess and sparkle.

A cap that excels in detail and clarity always causes a more upfront perspective and lost of the natural midrange.

I have not found any cap that does it all.

The jupiter copper is the closest, but doesnt highlight any particular range. It has become a no brainer choice for me unless there are specific areas of the sound i would like to gain a little more, thats where the cast, cutf, tftf and mundorf would have to be called for duty.

Imo, the cuft is closest sounding to the cast, not nearly as natural but is what i would class as a consider a midrange centric cap which has a very clear and prominent midrange details. So much so that the clarity cannot bring out some euphony in the vocals and midrange texture.

Do make it a point to take note the effect of the tweeter cap has on the bass, yes a warm less extended cap on the tweeter takes away some dynamics ad low extension on the bass noticeably.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
Justubes2

That is my exact finding with the Jupiter caps which are now my go to also. Perfectly balanced. I like the CAST, but have found time and again they are tilted upward in the upper mids. I think some love this sound and thus rank it higher. I find the Jupiter more neutral with a tad more fine detail and air.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,518 posts
 
Let me give the Duelund comment more background. This is my experience in electronics only. I have not tried them in speakers which may yield a different result. Even in electronics they are outstanding and my second choice after the Jupiter coppers.
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