Let's forget about being politically correct

Asa: I was able to follow along with your last post 100% : ) I have to say that i agree with the points that you were making and found one point particularly interesting. That is, your comments about Nordost cabling.

The little bit of Nordost that i've tried did sound very "accurate" i.e. very detailed, fast, clean, etc..., but a large portion of the "magic" or "musicality" seemed to be knocked out of the system at the same time. Part of this might have been due to the lack of bass weight & warmth / shift in tonal balance that i experienced. The funny thing is that, according to most High End reviewers, the expensive Nordost stuff is the cream of the crop. My guess is that many of us have very different priorities & goals for our systems and this is just further evidence of that point.

Kind of funny how there are SO many variables that can be affected at one time by one component or cable change. Sean
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Sean, yes, I use Nordost as an analogy and example often because people know it and it was one of the first IC's to create an interesting dilemna. I was a reviewer at the time so had all the Nordost I wanted (Reynolds at Nordost is a very nice guy)so I could fool around with it a bit.

Nordost is like many of the most recent SS pre's: it reduces distortive artifacts to the point that you believe - your thinking listening mind beleives - that all is finally taken care of. But, somehow, something is not right, and you usually discover this over time. It creeps up on you. You can't point to any-thing that is accurately wrong because you are looking for things, accurate sound-sources. It takes a while because what is ommitted are the existential qualities I cited above: Nordost reduces mechanical artifacts in source while rendering a void space, producing, in the mind, a propensity to focus on the source as if it is an object. Its a source/space incongruency, yet one effected by ommission. Because ommision (the thinking mind is active and has a harder time noticing what is absent) and because what is absent is percieved predominantly in the non-thinking listening mind, what is wrong doesn't come to you right away. At first, in shallower listening levels, when you first sit down, you are impressed with the "clean-ness" of reduced distortive artifacts, vanishingly low in fact. But then, living with it, you notice a "tonal imbalance", which, perhaps, is due to harmonic lean-ness itself due to a lack of space WITHIN the source itself. Then, after a longer time, you realize that its just not "musical", which as I've asserted in an objective way means an ommission of rendering an existentially correct space.

If the IC can't translate the existential qualities "from" the tube pre, you can not blame the tube pre for the apparently percieved flaw.

Its always been frustrating for me to see someone move to a good tube pre but keep the less existentially correct IC and then only hear what is left in the tube pre's rendition, which is then precieved and argued as being euphonic. The spatially inadequate IC may be fine with a SS system, and appropriate in that context, but becomes a significant impediment when the transition from SS to tube is attempted. It leads to misperception, mistakenly atrributed to the newly inserted tube pre.

sean, even a dummy like me understood asa's last post.:]

Asa, I agree with your Nordost opinion. I ran Nordost QF for around 2 years, and did not make this realization until I tried other ICs. I do not think that I could state as eloquently as what you said about Nordost. I tend to describe the QF as having the effect of filtering music/signal. This filtration does make the end signal sound perhaps a bit cleaner (MP3 is effectively a filter as well that makes CD digital sound cleaner, as well as the CD medium itself is a filter for analogue sampling the wave at 44khz or so), but there is obviously detail that is missing from the QF when compared to other ICs. I have not tried the Valhalla IC, so I have no opinion of it. After hearing the Valhalla SC, however, I can imagine that the Valhalla IC is very good. My personal favorite IC now is the Jena Labs Symphony. The Jena Labs is no nonsense ultra ultra pure copper which is cryoed with no gimmicks. It has a transparency and a naturalness of sound that I have not heard in any IC that I have tried in it's price range ($1100/3' retail). Even at full retail, I think the Jena is worth every penny.

KF

TOK, there is a continuum of this "lack" in the Nordost iterations from SPM onwards, and particularly with the IC's versus the spkr cables. Yes, it feels like "something" is being "filtered," as in removed, or ommitted. Valhalla is better with air infusion in source, but still pull towrds bias of source over void space. Also, earlier lines were more dominant upon upstream components in this existential, spatial and harmonic filtering; as line proceeds it has less tendancy to impose and pass through, but the "filtering" regarding dimension remains. I think its a great SS cable by and large, although not for more harmonically complete SS amps like the Ayre and Pass units.

I haven't heard the newest Jena's, so can't say for sure, of course, but the purist design and reports from others are very close to my impressions of the Walker-distributed Mapleshade Omega Micro Planar copper spkr wire (not IC's). I have heard some very good things about the Jena from some very good systems and ears, mostly running the Valykrie, now yours included with the Symphony. I think you would find some things to like in the Omega Micro too.

Good move from the Nordost to Jena.