2. amps-preamps
  3. 1062902058

Weight vs Wattage vs Current vs Slam vs Value

Although I have no expertise in contrast to others, in regards to what is the best amp, be it SS or Tube especially considering the cost of the amp, used or not...I wonder what is in your opinion the best indicator of value. The definition of value here would be in all term the perception of the listener of the sound that he/she is likely to hear with the amp in the proper set up....
Some of the strangest things I have heard perceived while reading through audio ads and other post are things like

Odyssey amps.....comparing their amps and the their value in terms of watts vs cost...being very affordable in comparison to other manufacturer's amps....I am very skeptical about their line.....continue reading the other ideas I have come out with...

I had a pair of Carvers, they were light and yet it seems as if they produced some impressive Watts....my M 4.0 t produced 375 watts per channel and weighted about 25 lbs or something like that....but knowing by experience, these were the most ANEMIC watts I have ever had the pleasure of producing. Very weak when attempting to run tough loads.


Class A output SS amps....tend to be heavy, but their wattage seems to be low. I am curious about Clayton and their famous S-40? That produces 40 watts, but are tauted to have a lot of power in the perception of sound....Does this mean that a Clayton S-40 has more slam, soundwise as my DNA 225? If this is the case, what about Clayton S-40s versus my BC 2 monoblocks? Each having 75 watts of class A power+ being 75 lbs each? I do not remember my BC-2 having that much sense of SLAM.

The monster amps have a lot of weight, but then, they cost nearly as much and at least, perception wise (especially Krell/Levinson) have a lot of slam in their sound
Some SET amps, being low wattage, I have read somewhere that even THEY can have a sense of slam if properly set up...I.E: context of how they are being sonically displayed, perhaps with a huge folded horn set up.

And this question goes on and on....

Would like to have a list of amps, be it classic or contemporary with a small comment on their WATTAGE, WEIGHT and their sound characteristic...be it neutral, soft, dark, SLAMMY? etc... and your rationale about why each one of them are either excellent in value or very poor.

PAUL
bemopti123
_scotty_
12 posts
 
Try Listening to the lastest BelCanto digital 2channel amp.
The relative weight of the amp in lbs now has very little
to do with its impact or weight in the bass.Whether the industry knows it or not producers of conventional analogue amplifiers
should now realise that their days may be numbered. While the current examples of digital amplifiers now available
are not perfect they do exhibit some characteristics that
conventional analogue amps are hard pressed to equal.An astonishingly large and transparent sound stage with very good focus in addition near matchless bass impact and definition.As with any other amplifier design if you go cheap on the power supply the bass and all other aspects
of the the reproduced sound will suffer.The first generation BelCanto had this mistake,maybe bean counters at work. In regards to the Clayton S-40,I belive it has a Class AB region that goes on up to 180 watts and doubles into 4 ohms.It is also a bipolar output design which gives it the ability to have a voltage swing nearly rail to rail.
It can use more of its total power supply voltage to reproduce music than a conventionally designed mosfet output based amplifier.One of the digital amplifiers' greatest
strengths comes from its typically 90% efficient utilization
of its power supply.At any given moment 90% of the stored energy in the power supply is available to accurately reproduce a musical waveform.Contrast this with an average
40% power supply efficiency for conventional amp.A digital
amp has another advantage over conventional amplfiers. Its output transistors are either all the way turned on or they are off.In the case of the high speed Mosfet outputs typically used they are turned all the way on and in their most linear operating region instantly.They are also exhibiting their lowest real world output impedence[ie.,before feedback] at all times.The analogue amp only
approaches this ideal when at full rated power,a conditon
that is rarely seen during actual use.Usually the listeners ears and speakers are in a region of non-lineariy when it occurs. In conclusion,it would appear that we live in a brave new Digital world and can expect a closer approach
reality in music reproduction in our listening room if we desire it. Happy Listening, _scotty_
snickelfritz
42 posts
 
Amplifiers that continue to increase their output with decreasing impedance loads will have more "slam" or "low frequency dynamic contrast" than those that employ current limiting in the output stage.
ie: 200wpc into 8ohms, 400wpc into 4ohms, etc...
This is especially true with loudspeakers that drop below 4ohms in the bass.
This almost always translates into a very large, heavy power supply and many high-power output devices per channel.($)

The "speed" of current delivery has nothing to do with slam or dynamic contrast.
Electrical current travels at virtually the same speed in all electronics.
In any event, the electrical rise time of a low frequency waveform is going to vastly outrun a massive mechanical device like a loudspeaker driver.

You can pretty much judge the quality of an amplifer by two criteria; the weight and the price.
_scotty_
12 posts
 
Dear Snickelfritz,I have to agree that generally speaking
a higher price tag will insure a heavier box and a possibly
a more pleasing exterior appearance.Price and weight
however are completely unrelated to the accuracy of reproduction the amplifier can deliver.This is perhaps
one of the few hobbies where spending more money will not automatically guarantee a superior end result.What we are attempting to purchase is someones intelligence applied to solving problems related to successfully reproducing music accurately in our listening room.By spending more money
on a prettier and heavier box we may have accomplished nothing more than to line the pockets of someone smart enough to build the aforementioned box and convince us we need it. There are a limited number of geniuses in the world and all of them cannot be working in this field.The trick is to find one with some insight into the problem.
The urge to spend more money to insure a more satisfactory
outcome isn't to hard to understand it usually works.
Spend enough money and you can graduate from a leaky rowboat
to a X millon dollar carbon-fiber hulled racing yacht.
In this hobby money doesn't equal brains it usually means
you helped pay for an expensive marketing campaign in Stereophile or Absolute Sound.
Regarding Slam or dynamic contrast, a lower power supply
impedence is a key component in helping an amp to deliver
more accurate waveform reproduction at all frequencies but
taken by itself is no guarantee of anything.An amplifier
is the sum of its parts.Ignoring slewrate,settling time,and
symmetry when discussing amplifier design will lead to false conclusions. I hope this post will help clarify certain aspects of this discussion.Happy listening,_scotty_
snickelfritz
42 posts
 
Hehe, my tongue was firmly placed in my cheek when I made that comment regarding price and weight.
You're absolutely right; the best way to choose any high performance audio component is through extensive auditioning and research.
Bring a scale and a fat wallet with you just to be safe though.
=P
_scotty_
12 posts
 
AH HA Snickfritz, I'am on to you now.I guess we will have to discuss the relative merits of Digital vs Analogue scales now. Of course I like digital scales because they don't "weigh" so much and are easier for a lazy man to pack around to various "highend salons".
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