2. amps-preamps
  3. 1066685776

New preamp or other suggestions?

I'm really getting tired of the harsh sound of my system. At this point, I honestly would rather listen to music in my car than in my listening room. I've always chalked it up to a poor room layout (and that's not something that I can change), because this same system sounded UNBELIEVABLE in the dealer's showroom. For what it's worth, I've already treated the room with Echobusters panels, which helped quite a bit, but not enough to make the system sound really enjoyable.

Recently an audiophile friend suggested that a good tube pre might make the system more listenable. The current system is:

Source 1: CAL Icon MKII HDCD w/PowerBoss power supply
Source 2: Music Hall Fidelity CD-25 (stock)
Pre - Bryston BP-20 line stage (balanced to pwr amp)
Power - Bryston 4BST
Speakers - Thiel 3.6
Interconnect (pre to pwr, bal)-AQ Lapis or Nordost Red Dawn
Interconnect (CD to pre) - AQ Lapis, unbalanced
Spkr Cable - AQ Midnite X3

The system on the whole is currently lacking mid-bass (the terrible room strikes again) and has a harsh, in-your-face high end. Of the two sources, the CAL has a MUCH better bottom end, but is lacking detail and air at the top, and has a very "forward" presentation. The CD-25 has a much more detailed (and enjoyable) top and a wider soundstage, but light bass.

I listen mostly to pop, acoustic jazz and contemporary electric jazz.

My friend suggested picking up a used AR or CJ tube pre in place of the Bryston. Another friend suggested replacing the op-amps in the CD-25 with 627's to enhance its bottom end.

I'm a musician and not an audiophle, so I don't know if the advice I've received will fix the problem.... I'm also on a budget, but could swing $1-1.5K on a new/used pre if that would fix my problem.

Do any of you experts (and I mean that sincerely) have any ideas?
hoosierdaddyonline
hoosierdaddyonline OP
3 posts
 
That's a great point, and having an electronics background, it was the first thing that I considered.

I actually did both of your suggestions - I had the salesguy come to the house, and his reaction was "Wow! That sounds awful!...there's definitely some weird bass anomaly going on here." (At least he was honest about it.)

We then lugged the whole system back to his store and set it up in his much larger and more symmetrical listening room, and it sounded fine. So I think we could safely eliminate hardware failure from the list of causes.

I don't think any individual component in my system is at fault here; I'm pretty convinced that the hardware system (in total)is just a bad match for my particular room. With that as a given, the question becomes one of practicality - how do I achieve a more listenable system in my environment at minimum additional cost?

For the folks who suggested replacing the speakers, my only comment is that I picked the Thiels because they were the only speakers that I heard in my price range that reproduced music the way I heard it live. I listened to Vandersteens, Maggies, Paradigms and a couple of others, but in my opinion, none of them came close to being able to reproduce the nuances of a guitar tone to the degree that the Thiels did.

If I can retain my system's ability to resolve that level of detail, but push it "back" in the presentation and balance it with a stronger midbass, I'd have it made.

Thanks again to all who responded!!
joe
cellorover
417 posts
 
I tend to agree with some others that it is a speaker issue ...(especially after reading some new research from Europe on metal versus soft dome tweaters and brain waves)....but we could use some additional information. The last thing you want to do is go into replacement frenzy.

What are your room dimensions and how is the room laid out? Room interaction is critical. So, please include ceiling height and type of walls and how you have the room furnished.

In the meantime, either swap out components one at a time or try your components in a friend's system (one at a time) to see if there is a component problem. Do not try and carry speakers around for this exercise. Do the same with your ICs.

You are about to make a significant transition, so take your time and let your ears be the final decision maker.
elevick
2,636 posts
 
Lose the Thiels! No matter how much I like thiels, they can very easily sound harsh. Also, some "softer" sounding amps (tube/class A) would mellow them a bit but Thiels are so hard to drive that most tube amps can't handle them.

I have learned that most speakers in Thiels price range are softer sounding/less harsh. Try B&W, Vienna Acoustics, Vandersteen, Martin Logan......
ipy
113 posts
 
My cd based system has gone through alot of changes/upgrades lately however one of the more significant "improvements" was to install a power conditioner (ie: PS Audio PP) to feed a/c to the cdp and the rest of the equipment. It has remove the harhness and sibiliance that cd playback is so notoriously known for. One of reasons why you might enjoy your car stereo more than your home system is the car stereo is powered by batteries and is less "polluted" than your mains in your home. Good luck.
gjrad
145 posts
 
I have to agree with the above comments, you will most likely need to replace the Thiels. I have had numerous pairs of Thiels (1.5, 2.2, 2.3s) with basically the same results, they can sound very harsh. But if you love them you might want to give this a try. First replace your SS preamp with a tube preamp. This change helped quite a bit. Then get MIT cables, I think I used the MH-750. The combination of the tube preamp and the MITs got my 2.3 to sound pretty good. But ultamately for type of music I listen to (Jazz) I moved on to Virgos should sounds much better.
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