I've lost my bass....


Well, not all of it. My system is:

Arcam CD92
Marantz 2020 (Don Scott modified) Tuner
Conrad Johnson PV14
Conrad Johnson MV60
Audio Physic Virgo III
HT Pro 9 Interconnects
Synergistic Research Sig. 2 Speaker Cables

This is my first tube system and I love it. I had this system in a 15' x 23' room and I thought it was outstanding. Mids and highs were exceptional and bass was firm though clearly not registering the lowest octaves. I was OK with that.

Here's the problem. I needed to put my Home Theater system in the room where the stereo was and put the stereo where the home theater was. The furniture and carpeting was also switched at the same time. Now the stereo is in an "L" shaped room that is bigger than the previous one. As a result, the bass repsonse is not nearly as authoritative as it was in the smaller room (no surprise).

My question is, what can be done to improve bass response? Some issues I've thought of are:

1. Room treatment? What kind?
2. Try different tubes (FYI, MV60 is EL34 based amp)? Any suggestions?
3. Amp is underpowered?

I'm open to any ideas on how to improve bass response.

Thanks to all for any help.
Dave
milo
You do not mention how far into the room the speakers are placed.

As mentioned above, positioning the speakers closer to the wall they back up to will allow the room itself to reinforce the bass response. But too close and things start to get muddy-sounding, as all speakers have different room interaction characteristics, so experimentation is your only option.

Heck, your listening position may actually be in a bass node itself - mine was, and I had to rearrange my entire great room (30'x20'x15' vaulted) to get out of the hole. I only found this out after spending big bucks replacing alot of gear, when my dealer measured my room response with a Real Time Analyzer (RTA). Taking full advantage of the room's shape and features in the best configuration made the single-biggest change in sound quality my system has experienced (and it was FREE!).

Also, Room Treatments CAN significantly affect bass response if you can figure out where to place the treatments to even-out the room modes, nodes and lull-points.

Rives.com and MichaelGreenAudio.com (among others) can help educate you on these principles. This is truly the 'black art' of the audiophile biz...and the only way to get the most out of the equipment that you have.

Hope that helps - good luck finding your bass....
There are some good suggestions by all above. Newbee is correct about playing with the speaker and listening chair placement. The closer to the wall the more the back wall will influence (good or bad) the bass regions.

I'm not that familiar with different tubes or tube amps but I believe there are very few amps that can really achieve that absolute control and visceral punch in the lowest octaves.

However, it seems that you had some of this before, and now it appears to be gone. I do believe that a certain amount of room pressurization helps. The fact that you now have a more open L-shaped room probably does not help matters.

Bottom line is no two rooms are exactly alike acoustically. But there are usually several ways to influence sonics one way or the other.

Does the new room have as good or thicker carpeting as the previous? Also, depending on ceiling height and reflection, your bass sound waves may be collecting and become trapped in the upper corners where the back wall meets the ceiling.

-IMO
I disagree that changing amps will not affect the quantity of bass and there are several reasons why i believe this. The two reasons listed below basically sum up all the various reasons that may fall into multiple different categories though.

1) Various amps are of different circuitry from one another

2) Various amps don't respond the same to various loads / impedances

As such, not only can the solidity, impact, control, definition, etc... of the bass be altered when changing amps, so can the quantity. While i don't think that this is your main problem ( probably room acoustics ), i did want to point out that it is quite possible that changing amps could provide you with a very different sonic presentation over the entire frequency range. Sean
>
A few things to try.

1. Push the speakers either 1/5 or 1/3 out into the room and try moving them around until you hear the bass get stronger. You might want a friend to help you with this. Even better, I would reference the AP setup guide on www.immediasound.com or the cardas setup guide on www.cardas.com. If you follow these carefully, often times you might find a big increase in performance. I've found with the AP's that placement can have a large impact on bass.

2. Try closing any doors. If the speaker has a smaller space to pressurize it will evidence more bass.

3. Try moving the speakers closer and further apart while listening for more bass. Following the setup guides will probably get you fairly close but moving/listening will get you to the place where the speaker is truly working with the room. Just small amounds of 1-3 inches should do it.

4. Clean your interconnects and contacts using contact cleaner. This tends to improve bass. Also try to use the shortest interconnect cables possible and perhaps experiment with cables. I like Nordost Red Dawn on up and Cardas Golden Reference cables with the virgo's. For less expensive I have had good results using Harmonic Tech Truthlink ic's (or red dawn) and Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables. The Zen speaker cables are a great way to go.

5. Your amp is a on the small side with the Virgo's. I used to run an MV-50 with my old Virgo II's and I recall that it was not exactly a bass monster but still a wonderful sound. I remember swapping in a 185 watt per channel McCormack amp caused the speakers personality to change dramatically - they had much stronger bass. Almost seemed like a different speaker. It was going from 45wpc to 375 so this should not have been a surprise. If the above did not help I would try first using a borrowed/extra amplifier to see if this indeed will solve your problem. Your preamp is also known for slightly recessed bass. I'm not surprised by what you are reporting. Make sure the amp is biased and perhaps try swapping in some Svetlana EL-34's. Those are Mullard copies and exhibit some nice strong bass.

Disclaimer: I do sell Cardas and Audio Physic.