I've lost my bass....


Well, not all of it. My system is:

Arcam CD92
Marantz 2020 (Don Scott modified) Tuner
Conrad Johnson PV14
Conrad Johnson MV60
Audio Physic Virgo III
HT Pro 9 Interconnects
Synergistic Research Sig. 2 Speaker Cables

This is my first tube system and I love it. I had this system in a 15' x 23' room and I thought it was outstanding. Mids and highs were exceptional and bass was firm though clearly not registering the lowest octaves. I was OK with that.

Here's the problem. I needed to put my Home Theater system in the room where the stereo was and put the stereo where the home theater was. The furniture and carpeting was also switched at the same time. Now the stereo is in an "L" shaped room that is bigger than the previous one. As a result, the bass repsonse is not nearly as authoritative as it was in the smaller room (no surprise).

My question is, what can be done to improve bass response? Some issues I've thought of are:

1. Room treatment? What kind?
2. Try different tubes (FYI, MV60 is EL34 based amp)? Any suggestions?
3. Amp is underpowered?

I'm open to any ideas on how to improve bass response.

Thanks to all for any help.
Dave
milo
Your amplifier ABSOLUTELY affects your bass resolution and response.
Ever notice that powered Sub-Woofers are usually built with amplifiers that put out anywhere from 400 to 1,500 watts? It is because it takes a lot of power to resolve the lower octaves and control a bass speaker. Low powered tube amps are notorious for producing weak and/or flabby bass. Tube fans typically sacrifice the lower octaves in order to get the reputed liquid midrange and highs. Somehow, the smaller room was configured in such a way as to maximize the bass. This is a puzzle because the lower octaves usually need a bigger room to fully develop.
But, every room is so different and the variables are many. If you want to stick with your gear, the answer is going to be found in speaker placement and room treatment. Might be worth your while to hire an
acoustic consultant to come over for an hour or two and help you tune
your systems to your new rooms, to help you get maximum bass response from your tube gear, bring your system back into balance. Or, you can add a Sub-Woofer. But, I would try the consultant first. He/she
can also help you decide if a Sub-Woofer is warranted and can help you
integrate it into your system. Just a suggestion.

I agree with Sean, the amp can definitely impact bass response. I had a McCormack DNA2 in my system for awhile, and the bass was subterrainian, far better than with any other amp I have owned. However, I couldn't live with the way it sounded in the mids/highs. If you are happy with the overall sound from your current amp, I would listen to those who recommended getting a sub. Get one that is fast and musical, not an HT muscle sub, and one that integrates well with your Virgos, then cut it off as low as possible to achieve the extra bass you are looking for. Doesn't AP make a highly regarded musical sub?
Try a cheap fix first....Put big spikes on the bottoms of the speakers. This should get through the carpet and anchor them to the subfloor. I'll bet this will outperform most of these suggestions and save you a bundle. You could even go nuts and buy some really heavy basses or feet for the speakers?
Do you have the MV60 or MV 60SE? The SE solves the bass problem with the MV60 while giving you more power, bass and speed. The same is true of the PV 14 Series 2. It is well worth the upgrade. Amp stands and room interaction also play a role. I would call CJ and talk to them about your cables. The subwoofer is not a solution. A more efficient or better designed side firing woofer/speaker system is a consideration. I do not think the AP Virgo is the best match for your amps. Keep the amps and change the speakers.
Cellorover, Interestly I think you may have reached the correct conclusion, that he should consider getting new speakers, but for the wrong reason. I suspect the Virgo's are just not capable of energizing the bass in a room as large as the one he now has to use (with any amp!) but personally I see no reason why he should have to find a new speakers and, potentially an amp, when a sub will do. But since you mentioned it, why not elaborate on why a well integrated sub would not work for him and save him the cost and expense of buying new speakers, etc.

Sean, Rsbeck, and others who mentioned the amp - I don't disagree with you in principal, however I didn't see this as a potential solution to what sounded like a substantial loss of bass. Apart from the placement issues I saw a sub as his only viable solution and still be able to keep the Virgos. Recall in his original placement he felt the bass was not outstanding, merely adequate.

Now if his complaint is really just a minor one about bass quality or quantity then the amp becomes a real factor - as I recall the CJ is not an earthshaking bass amp, either in quality or quantity. Perhaps he should get a RS sound meter and a test disc and measure the bass response at the various listening positions and see how far off flat his bass is, and what frequencies need boosting, before he embarks on any revisions. Perhaps he just has overambitious expectations re bass. Perhaps further feed back from the poster would help him get some more specific recommendations.