Counterpoint SA-5000 or First Sound Presence Pre

Bemopti123, just because you never own a SA-5000 it doesn't mean that it is not as good as the other. Same goes for other 30 different top preamps that are up there and you have not heard. As far as reliability goes, we have 5 SA-5000s among our local friends and never had any issue. I had SA-2 head amp and never had any issue. Got to be open minded.

The Counterpoint SA-5000 is a real sleeper, wish i'd paid more attention to it earlier, but I have a mint one now and won't let it go ! The First Sound is also a very nice preamp, but I can only use one at a time !

Having owned an SA-5000 in the past and having compared it to one of the earlier First Sound Presence models, I can tell you that the First Sound IS in another league altogether. The Presence had better dynamics, resolution, imaging, and sounded so much more natural; more at ease. The Presence did have NOS 6DJ8's in it, Amperex Gold pin/D getter, if memeory serves me. I can't remember which tubes I'd had at the time in my Counterpoint. I think Gold pin Amperex's.

My SA-5000 saw the shop a few times before I'd owned it and once in the brief time I'd owned it. I horse traded the Counterpoint off years back, demo'ed a Tube Research GTP-3 and bought it.

If you are limited to chose between only the SA-5000 or the First Sound, definitelly listen to the First Sound. If you are not limited to those units only, check out the Tube Research. The prices of the TRL GTP-3 and the FS Presence are pretty close to each other.

jes45@aol.com, based on your preference, you liked big open sound like the ARC SP-11 MKII and CATs Ultimate and SL MKIII. I wouldn't said that First Sound is in a different league but rather in different sound. Audio is so subjective that I always recommend everything you need to hear first hand before you buy anything. If a buyer don't know what he's looking to get then I would always suggest him don't buy anything at all because he'll never be satisfy. As far as your SA5000 goes, sorry to hear that you got much issue with it. I have yet to hear any preamp that's best at every play back.

I agree that system integration plays a big role in anyone's preference, however with Bigkidz listed system, I'd assume that the First Sound would be a better choice for him than the SA-5000 and that the Tube Research GTP-3 or GTP-4 would be even better.

I hope that my sharing my first hand experience with the SA-5000 didn't upset you. It's difficult somethimes to share experiences without stepping hard on someone else's toe. This was not my intent. My Counterpoint had reliability issues and it was too dark, recessed, slow, lacked dynamics (micro and macro) and lacked the detail for me in my system. This is not to say that it may not match perfectly for someone else in someone else's system, or that anyone else's Counterpoint has reliability issues. Maybe mine was built late Friday afternoon?

I'd listened to the three pre-amps you'd mentioned, S23Chang, and even considered the CAT until I heard the TRL GTP-3. In my system, there was no comparison. To me, the Tube Research IS in another league all of its own. YMMV, (Your Mileage May Vary).