I'm going back to tubes... a question for y'all

First I would say that I am going to be talking about quality tube gear versus quality ss gear. Quality tube gear does not have rolled off top and bottom end. It will probably be noisier than ss gear although if you use transistors in the ps, you can get the same quiet. Apart from John Tucker's efforts, however, I have always found such power supplies to sound too much like ss gear. I don't think it has anything to do with poor digital recordings as I do not think the superiority of tubes has anything to do with their smoothing the sound. I find tubes to have more detail and to be quicker sounding. Solid state gear, with the exception of 47 Labs stuff, sound unmusical, lacks pace, and generally cannot achieve the realism of good tube gear.

Finally, I will make one clear exception to what I have just said, namely the H-Cat P12, while ss, is un-solid state sounding. It has pace and musicality and given that I have yet to hear anything else that can even come close to its sound stage, it has realism.

I have repeatedly ventured in and out of tube gear over the years frequently because tube dacs or powerful amps were unavailable. Typically when tube gear became available or when I no longer needed a powerful amp, I bought it and was happy.

I would recommend following your ears. You will probably grow tired of vintage gear. Be confident, however, that tubes need not lose you top or bottom end and can give you greater realism. You may have to go to efficient speakers, however.

Tubegroover,

First of all, I never said the vintage gear are the all time best but definitely way better value. You'll have to spend 5 times more on solid state gear to achieve the same performance in tube gear.

Price aside, the original MC275 is far more superior to my ears than the MC60. I have SETs myself too and heard heard over half of dozen really nice SETs and they are not suitable for all music. It does have nice glow and bloom sound but lack of pace and punch and the push and pulls. You need to find an amp with good balance that can drive your speakers. The OTL is nice concept but it doesn't mean it is always better than conventional transformer amp. It's effortless sound is impressive and a bit "in your face" feel but it doesn't mean that it produces the best sound. If it is so great than every manufacture would have jump on the same band wagon. Why are we still using the transformer these days in almost every tube amp?
Because it is more popular among the listeners?

The list I gave above is just examples of good vintage gears. You really need to match everything to your ears. You're welcome to add more to the list if you like.
Too bad that you have yet to explore all the nice vintage gears. It's a matter of taste at this point so no further discussion needed.

Sorry S23chang, didn't see your list before responding to your 1st post. So far as vintage gear and value goes, I do agree with much of what you say.

So far as OTL amps, yes they do have limitations like most tube gear. Does "in your face" mean a more up front presentation? Yes I would say that is correct as well, at least in comparison with virtually all ss and many tube amps. But I don't think this is characteristic of the design so much as a reflection of the recording. OTL amps only sound in your face on recordings that are closely miked, they do have a greater sense of immediacy and yet if the recording is laid back they can sound that way as well. In fact I can clearly hear more into the recording with these amps, they seem to be more accurate in this regard. On balance OTL designs seem closer to real than any of the transformer coupled tube amps I have heard top to bottom. The reason they aren't widely accepted by audiophiles (manufacturer's follow the market) is simply that the design hasn't progressed past their intrinsic limitations, impedance matching, inefficiency and heat.

btw, the Dynaco Mk III's I am very familiar with and are superb amps. They also run quite hot and can really go through tubes, maybe there is something to this has something to do with their sound? Btw, my MC-60's are far from the stock warm and fuzzy vintage variety. They are pushing out close to 130 watts and have ss rectifiers with a beefed up power supply. Better extension on top and extremely punchy in the bass, just lacking the definition of the OTL's and ss. Again it depends on what the music is.

Thank you Tubegroover for your response. Yes, not many folks like "in your face" sound. It is not really how the recording was done, rather, it was just exaggerated overall. Too much excitement is not good either. It really make you fatigue after long listening. The OTL tend to have control issue like runaway train. Maybe with the modern microchips, the OTL might have great potential lack of general public interest. So we're back to square one with traditional transformer amps.