Sonic Frontiers to Conrad Johnson .

I want to thank eveybody who responded. For now I'll keep the B&W 801's. Some have said go with the CJ 17 and forget about it. Someone said the phrase 'tonally cold' in describing the SF Line1. I could'nt have described it better. I have the upgrade bug bad, and have my eye on a CJ 16 MKII, but it is $4K. Sonic Frontiers went from a tube sound to SS sound with their products. I'm wondering if CJ did the same thing after they came out with the ART. I see PV10's cheap and wonder if I'll be as happy with a $4 thousand dollar purchase as I would be with a $700 dollar PV10. Does the more you spend get you further away from the classic tube sound that I crave, or does it get you tube sound that has better air, depth, bass and richness? Any takers?

Hell, want to experiment with the lushness and see if you actually like the CJ sound? Get the affordable tubed preamp from them, the PV10 should you wish, and play with it. Then, when you are sure, get the bigger, larger, badder brother up the line and be happy with your gear.

I once had the SF Power 2 amplifier, the sound was not really cold or anything, it had slamm, but the bass was not as I shall say, under tight control. Your preamp will make or break the system as this point.

To advocate selling the speaker is too much to ask, toy with the preamp and for sure, you will end up with something you will like in the sound.

IC can also be used to add some lushness to the sound, pure, continuous copper wire, like the Analysis Plus Solo Crystal and even the rare Chimera Labs might set you in the right path. Supposedly silver wires are not too smooth.

Its not really so much about money as the general direction that tube audio has taken in the past 10+ years. All of the majors, ARC, Sonic's Frontiers, and CJ have moved away from the "warm" sound of tube amps from the 80's and early 90"s.

Its my belief that they were trying to respond to complaints of loose base, warm midrange and rolled off highs, all of which to some extent obscured some detail. Resolution, extended highs, and a tight bass became the priorities of most modern tube units. Some folks will say that CJ's are warm(er) but in comparison to what. When I got my ARC SP10 in 1983 no one would have called this a "warm pre-amp" but today, in comparison to modern pre's from ARC or just about any manufacturer you might call it romantic! Same for tube amps but maybe less so. If you want to get that old warm tube sound your going to have to buy some old tube equipment. If you had less demanding speakers you could get one of these new units made in China that put out about 40 tube wts but that wouldn't be near enuf for your speakers. But, for example, that little Primaluna is a good old fashioned big warm tube unit.

Some of the classic tube pres and amps still bring fairly decent prices 15 to 20 years latter and often they need to be re capped, etc. Think ARC and CJ both. But there are others......have fun exploring the internet. :-)

You kight try a c-j Premier 14, their 1st Premier-level preamp with RC. I believe they're c. 41500 but I could be wrong.
...RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1115098120
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So I am curious... why so stuck on the speakers? I have never been a big fan of b&w... and while I own a lot of vintage gear (and appreciate their sins of omission) I think the Sonic Frontiers stuff is very musical... and not in the least cold (room playing a heavy factor here... never mind personal preference).

My advice would be to dump the b&w's. I also think things like digital eq and active biamping may generate a lot more benefit than changing pre/amp (then again, if you just want new gear... that is another topic :-).