Somebody Help Convert me to tubes

Hi Dewinkle,
I had CS-3.6's for 8 years and went through a similar set of events. I drove them with both Levinson and Krell amps with their respective make preamps. Upon wishing for the same thing as you I started auditioning tubed preamps for 2-3 months with each one. I wanted to get to know the sound over time not just in one week. That being said I'd recommend going used, less painful financially.

Two preamps really put a smile on my face, made me relax and enjoy the "music" that was finally filling my head instead of it being a pratice of analysis. If having a remote is critical, then the first one will not work for that reason only. The second one does offer a remote model.

1) Sonic Frontiers SFL-2......can still be found at a very reasonable price and Upscale Audio helped me re-tube it to bring out the best.

2) B.A.T. VK-3i and VK-5i.....the 3i was awe inspiring for its relatively low price and the 5i with NOS tubes was killer.

Just my 2 cents on the topic since I'm familiar with Thiels sound.....infact I wish I never sold my 3.6's!

Dewinkle, here's a different approach:

You want to get a taste of what tubes can do, you're on a budget, and you want to be able to easily sell the piece of equipment should you decide to not keep it. Additionally, I have to assume that your ML pre and amp are a synergistic combo, so leave that alone. Instead, make your first change where changes are always most significant: at the source.

For very little money you can buy the Ah! Tjoeb 4000 tube output CD player that really is as good as everyone says it is. I bought one, and it is better, in the ways that matter, than my SS and very expensive, EAD transport and DAC. All the virtues of tubes: very open, dimensionality of images, liquid the way that real music is, surprising amount of detail, and great micro-dynamics. Very listenable. Two caveats: you HAVE to use premium tubes (talk to Upscale audio). I use NOS Siemens 6922's; there's only two 'though. And be careful with the upsampling version of the player. I am not a fan of it, as I think it hardens the sound and does strange things to the upper range; many will disagree. I have never seen a used 4000 ($450-$900) stay unsold for more than a couple of days.

Best.

Hi Dewinkle - I went through your same debate about 12 months ago. I had a solid state Threshold S/250 (125w/c) and FET9/e preamp driving Alon II speakers and had used this combo together for 12 years. The Alons are 87db and recommend 175w/c as a minimum. The high current Threshold had no issue driving the Alons to house shattering levels. As my search for a "tube" solution began, I quickly realized there are not many tube amps > 175w/c that mortals can afford. Also, my stereo rack did not allow space for monoblocks so I needed a stereo amp.

The Threshold/Alon combination had great bass response and sounded super with rock music. However, with jazz, instrumental and classical, I felt like I was missing something.

I first added a Mac C2200 tube preamp and it "smoothed" out the sound quite a bit. After adding the preamp, with good results, I just had to try a tube amp as well. After much deliberation, I added a Mac MC2102 (100w/c) tube amp. The Mac combo delivers 90-95% of the bass response I was used to, but the difference in instruments and vocals was phenomenal.

Tubes will be a little more expensive over the long haul, however, I do not regret my changes one bit. I cannot address your "power hungry" Theils - never had the opportunity to hear any.

Just my 2 cents - Good luck in your seach...

Diwinkle,

from this thread I think it is plain to see that if nothing else tubes in any part of your system will make a difference. IMHO the pre-amp is the straw that stirs the coffee. I started out with tubes 35 years ago as a kid. Watched them go out of style when SS took off. I had a all SS system up until a couple of weeks ago. I finally took the plunge and purchased a audio research ref 2, what a difference it had on my system. It made the cd's on my Wadia sound like vilny. I personally don't want the hassle of tube rolling and trying to guess when the tubes are at end of life so I think I am going to stop at just having a tube pre. I've been told by my dealer that tubes in a pre will last for years. I would only caution that if you go for a tube pre try to get the best unit your budget will allow. Every thing passes through it so your whole system will take on the flavor of your pre. I don't think the source is as important as I stated my CDP started sounding like my TT which was a real bonus. I had started favoring vilny over my cd's even though I had way more selection in cd's. In any event your ears will be the judge. You maybe able to audition a tube pre from a local dealer which will tell you right away if the sound is right for your system.

Diwinkle,

from this thread I think it is plain to see that if nothing else tubes in any part of your system wll make a difference. IMHO the pre-amp is the straw that stirs the coffee. I started out with tubes 35 years ago as a kid. Watch them go out of style when SS took off. I had a SS up until a couple of weeks ago. I finally took the plunge and purchased a audio research ref 2, what a difference it had on my system. It made the cd's on my Wadia sound like vinyl. I personally don't want the hassle of tube rolling and trying to guess when the tubes are at end of life so I think I am going to stop at just having a tube pre. I've been told by my dealer that tubes in a pre will last for years. I would only caution that if you go for a tube pre try to get the best unit your budget will allow. Every thing passes through it so your whole system will take on the flavor of your pre. I don't think the source is as important as I stated my CDP started sounding like my TT which was a real bonus. I had started favring vinyl over my cd's even though I had way more selection in cd's. In any event your ears will be the judge. You maybe able to audition a tube pre from a local dealer which will tell you right away if the sound is right for your system.