2. amps-preamps
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Can HI FI components really make music?

Hello everyone. I am posting this question possibly a bit early but I am getting frustrated and am about to throw in the towel, sell everything and buy a Bose wave radio and call it good. My question is does a good HI FI system ever really sound like live music? At this point I think not. I have been in this hobby for about 7 years and just can't seem to get there. Even the system at the local "hi end" dealer does not come close to live music. My system has evolved over the years to the following:

Wadia 861 CD
VTL MB 125 mono blocks
Supratek Chennin Pre
(2) Vandy 2WQ subs
Vandy 3A Sig
Cardas Golden Cross inter con
Kimber Bifocal XL spk cable
Vandy model 5 Xover

All this gear is in a 13x35x8 room. Although the sound is quite good. Better than most any other system Ive heard it still has a long way to go. In all fairness the 3As are not completely broken in but I dont think they will improve to the extent I want them to over the course of the next 30 hrs. My dealers solution is that I should get rid of the Supratek and replace with a VTL 5.5. I dont think so. Been there done that. Although the VTL is decent it cant compete with the Supra.

At this point I think maybe the VTL 125s are just not sophisticated or powerful enough to give me the sound Im looking for. I think they are the weak link along with cabling. I stated earlyer that the dealers system doesnt do it for me either and I think that may be due to the fact that their biggest amp is 185 wpc. Im thinking maybe a sophisticated amp with say 400 wpc might get me there with the 3As. I dont know... but I am not willing to spend 100K to what I want nor could I afford to.

For those of you that are still with me any and all input welcome. I am not one of those thin skinned audiophiles that cries like a baby when someone has the audacity to insult their precious gear. So fire away.

Thanks
braro
c5150
115 posts
 
When I said to sell it all .....I ment it.I didn't say sell and give up your love for music,or to never listen again.You Have a hi-fi system and your not happy.Spending even more $$$ ...like all of us have to get you nothing.Well you can buy hope i guess.

My conclusion is your keeping the sound you don't like and are giving up.Oh you will improve some by appyling some of my friends tweaks but in the end you will be doomed to mediocre sound.Hey even the 200K system here on audiogon are changing things around.Wonder why????If they can't figure out good sound then in theory YOU can't either.I used to be part of that club, Good luck!
newbee
4,768 posts
 
"Once you know where the problem areas are frequency wise, how do you deal with them?"

Depends on the frequency. Moving the speakers and listening position about can cure a lot of bass problems, but not all (for those you might need a parametric equalizer). Toe-in can cause/cure a lot of sidewall reflection problems (mids and highs). Carpets can cure a lot of floor reflection problems (mids and highs) and ceilings can cause problems as well but are more difficult to treat because of WAF.

Get your meter back out and create a base line measurement on your system as set up and then start moving things about again and see what physical changes affect the base line measurements (chart it all, don't think you will remember 2hrs later). Pick and focus on one frequency abberation at a time (I usually start with the bass). If you need help after you have flattened it as best you can, give a very exact description/measurement of your room, furnishings, speaker and listening position. I'm sure many here will be able to give you specific recommendations.

You mentioned that your speakers measured differently. Is this the room or the speakers? Have you reversed the actual speakers to see? Have you just reversed the channels to see if its the electronics?

FWIW, your speakers are just fine, and in many ways ideal but they do have limitations. If you accept their limitations you will lose a lot of angst about not having a "perfect sound" system. Just don't spend a lot of money trying to get them to do something they can't! Be happy and listen to all that great music! :-)
herman
2,263 posts
 
Braro, I have Duos.

I am not so much a fan of horns as I am a fan of SET amps and highly efficient speakers. Music is very dynamic and inefficient speakers require tremendous amounts of power to be dynamic. These high powered amps are not as musical as low powered SET amps. This limits your speaker choices and horns happen to work with SET amps. The sticking point is that horns are difficult to properly implement and unless they are very big have limited bass response.

I've heard Lowther based systems that I really like (Beauhorn Virtuoso, Jeffrey's, Lamhorns) and some that I didn't. I've heard the Duos sound like crap when paired with the wrong components or improperly set up. I could live with any of the above mentioned but I happened to get a good deal on the Duos so I went for it. I've listened to a lot of systems over the years and mine has slowly evoled into one that I am very happy with. If you are in the market for a world class set of speakers and can afford it then Jeffrey's should be on your short list.
braro OP
87 posts
 
Herman, I like your room. I notice you have treatment in the front upper corners. Did you notice much of a difference after adding this tweak? My room has a sort of buzzing sound that is quite loud. If I clap my hands while sitting in the sweet spot the room rings or buzzes for about 1 second. I thought maybe the corners like you have would help.
sheffb
64 posts
 
Braro, I wrote earlier about my system. Now that I know you like jazz which I love, some suggestions which may be nothing new to you. The JVC XRCD jazz remasters are usually terrific. Most sound live in my system. Also many labals ie Columbia/Legacy, Blue Note, Verve have done a wonderful job remastering the classic greats from late 50s and 60s. The 20 and 24 bit remasters are particularly excellent. Usually the studio recordings are better but not always. On another subject, the PowerWing AC purifier "brass" edition not only refines the sound but will push your performance back further in the stage which might help you. Please read review by Dave Clark and Robert Levi, Positive Feedback, issue 8 on the net. I'm sure Alan the designer will lend you one to try. Of course I love my audio magic mini stealth which they burn-in before they ever send it to you. These two AC purifiers take nasty "grit" out of your system. The sound is then much cleaner and purer and you can never go back. Even my $3500 JPS Labs Aluminati Power Cord sounds better plugged into the Mini Stealth!
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