2. amps-preamps
  3. 1123254379

VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, or ARC Ref 3?

Finally, the two cold solder joints in one of my Rowland 7M amplifiers have been fixed. Just a simple 2 minutes soldering job at home, thanks to a kind live phone consult by Jeff himself. Now the system is back purring like a kitten.
Great say you, but. . . the problem is that now I have fallen totally prey to Upgraditis Furiosa, the most pernicious and 'wife threatening' form of Audiophilia Nervosa.
I listen mostly to classical--lots of chamber, vocal, Early Music, Baroque, Romantic, some large orchestra, lots of cello and other strings--on a system that I have lovingly put together over the last 20 years: EAD T1000, AT&T glass C-core glass wire, EAD D7000 Mk. 3, AudioQuest Quartz RCA, Audio Research LS2B, Gutwire XLR, Jeff Rowland 7M monoblocks, Cardas Golden Ref PCs on 7M, Cardas Golden Ref speakerwires, MagnePan 3A speakers.
The sound is sweet, lush, with a large if slightly unfocused soundstage, sometimes slightly veiled, somewhat soft at the bottom, can sound glorious in the midrange, good if not spectacular at the top. Much better at small ensembles than at full orchestra, where the sound stage can collapse and full strings and brass often display signs of brittleness and two-dimensionality. But, so much for self-criticism. Now what to do?
I intend to migrate towards a fully balanced system, with redbook and SACD capability and a tube linestage. I will start upgrading at the source and linestage points. The source will be an Esoteric X-01 or an upcoming APL NWO-1. But in this thread I'd like to discuss options for a new linestage. My requirements are an open and detailed, sweet sound, accurate with minimal coloration, with very good but not necessarily overwhelming macro-dynamics, an excellent three-dimensional and accurate soundstage, superior microdynamics and subtle nuance. The linestage must sound great out of the box--after breakin of course: not only after going through many cycles of NOS tubes musical chairs. All of this from a company with a stellar track record and reputation in quality, dependability and pre/post sale support. I listened to the VTL 7.5 and found it to be too soft. The BAT VK51SE sounded too dark. Then I listened at length to the VAC Ren II, which seems to embody all of my requirements. I have not heard the VAC Phi as yet, but it is in the running by inference. Nor I have listened to the ARC Ref 3, although I intend to: Ref 3 is in the running by reputation.
Suggestions? Opinions? It's your turn guys and girls!
guidocorona
dgad
782 posts
 
Guidocorona,

I agree with your assesment based on your definition. In that regard I would also say that the addition or removal of any top shelf preamplifier (top shelf is open to debate) will yield similar results. And to be honest is isn't very easy to diagnose in an A B test comparison. It is more appropriately evaluated via long term listening. The truly toughest test of all.

Now to throw in a new caveat, in my system any movement of the cables at all between equipment requires usually about a week for them to settle in & achieve the most listenable state. Oh, this gets so complicated. I have other friends who have mentioned the same experiences. I would strongly suggest that the Kimber did benefit in some way, but maybe not to its best ability. Also the latest generation of DCS equipment is highly regarded. I am an EMM fan & haven't heard the latest generation of DCS equipment. I have heard most of my previous equipment in multiple systems. Each time liking the overall system & finally deciding on a purchase. This included the EMM gear, Audio Aero, Wilson Watt Puppy 7s, & the VTL 7.5s. Mind you not my 750s, but I used to own the 100s years ago to great enjoyment. I also have heard Kharmas multiple times & found them dynamically limited each time and have heard Accuphase finding it to still sound "digital".

Is the ARC Ref 3 a great product. I am sure it is. I am looking forward to hearing it. I have heard ARC many times & highly recommend it. I ultimately feel the ARC house sound as well as many other top flight products have moved to much more neautral with a slight addition of maybe fullness or body to the sound. I remember loving the ARC Classic 60 on some ML speakers (If I remember right). I still want a Classic 60 sweetness in a second system for the fun of it.

The most fun of this hobby is the search & the reward after the search is over. Whatever you purchase should give you immense pleasure, should be synergistic with your system and keep you happy for a long time. Enjoy.
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
You are right DGAD, it is in fact terribly difficult to choose equipment in a single A/B test. I do not trust the process completely myself. As you read, there was to start with an unevenness of power chords. Everything was moving every few minutes by necessity. The room was full of obstacles that were playing havoc with sound. We may even have had some phase problems for all we know.
That is why I am so terribly anal about this business and intend to do some more A/B listening before I make a final decision. If possible at all I will also borrow some equipment for auditioning on my own system.
In the end I will have to live with whatever decision I make for a significant amount of time. . . as I'd like to stay married (chuckles!), so I have to make absolutely sure I will truly enjoy my choice for the LOOOONG run.
By the way, have you or anyone else had any experience with the Accuphase flagship player--the DP-100/DC-101 combo? Larry Diaz at High End Palace swears by it. But I have the concern that given its age, and the still digital nature of the sound on the newer DP-77, it may suffer from some of the same artificial coloration or relative lack of body.
dgad
782 posts
 
Guidocorona,

I have only hearsay on the DP-100/DC-101 combo. I have been told that the Single box units are significantlly better. I have not been so impressed with any Accuphase digital gear in multiple listening sessions. Mind you, none of the listening sessions were ideal, but one was in a friends house. I am a big EMM fan. I just can't get over how great the performance of SACD is w. the EMM setup. Listening right now & it is so very smooth & dynamic. I just can't pick it apart.
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
Thank you DGAD, If single box Accuphase players are supposedly better than the big combo, I am not terribly optimistic about DP-100/DC-101 performance. As discussed in my findings, the much newer single-box DP-77 was digitally colored, and I did not judge it to be a mature product. just for fun I started a thread last night called:
"Accuphase DP-100 DC-101 Sleeping Giant Or Dinosaur" at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1124591449&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
If anyone has had any experience with the Accuphase megacombo, or has any opinions about it, please post there.
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
It looks like I was in error regarding the ARC Ref 3 rolling update. According to Marcelosinicola--who has spoken to ARC--The change does not effect the four 6H30 output tubes--as I erroneously thought--but the single 6L6GC in the power supply is replaced with a pin-compatible 6550C. The 4 additional bypass capacitors are instead confirmed.
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