The best sounding FM Tuner is.....

My post was for Sean. No; I didn't just scan the FM Tuner Info site. It seems to have more or less spawned out of a local radio club's tuner shootouts, and the guys as well as the tuners are the same vintage. Baselines are biased, when they appear, and the guys who run it all use more or less the same equipment (Kenwood), except for the one off-center guy who uses a *gasp* Sansui. FYI- I actually use a Kenwood tuner, but I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which is my point: Accuphase, Sansui, Sony and several others all made great tuners you can pick up for around $60 now, that sound as good as many things that are hundreds of dollars more.

I didn't say that spec's don't effect things, but then again spec's aren't everything. None of the major designers lists whether they are using Rhodium plated connectors, what their topology is, how they wind their transformers and out of what (or if they buy them wholesale from others), if they use silver wire, what kind of capacitor construction they believe in, how many gangs and why, what kind of filters... so basically spec's can mean whatever you want them to, based on how you measure them. Fm Tuner Info though "has the answers" on "what's best" in the tuner world. Which is almost always a heads up that you are dealing with either an idiot or a zealot. Saying it sounds "good" to you based on some meaningless baseline is neither engineering or science. It also has nothing to do with applied audio theory. Does anyone really believe that a 500w receiver from Best Buy is a true 500w and sounds better than a 20w tube amp? And anyway, what kind of 500w? Class A, AB or D? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.

And this is generally how I feel about sites like FM Tuner Info. The Vintage Knob I like, and to me is more just historical. For instance someone made a key statement above: the Marantz 10B "can be" one of the best tuners out there when aligned correctly, etc. Well of course it can: it has one of the biggest plates around, the 805 tube, and so by virtue of electric theory it must be one of the most sensitive and widest in audio bandwidth. But not acccording to FM Tuner Info. Not the MR71 either. They found both "flabby" and "grainy". Well... you can pretty much stop right there, can't you? Because either they don't know how to properly align a tuner, they don't know how or when to change a tube, or they're deaf. I'm not a "the-more-expensive-it-is, the better it is" guy, but those two tuners are top notch.

One of the reasons I like 6 Moons even though many of their reviewers are about 180 degrees from where I am on the audiophile spectrum is they actually tell you what kind of music they like, the dB level they play it at, and what their favorite components and room treatments are, and how long they have had them. You can kind of relate to someone then, even if you wouldn't want their system. "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" isn't good enough... ...I mean seriously... ...would you buy a car from a guy who told you he had turned it on and it came on ok, so he's sure it "runs good"? I think not.

Actually it's very hard to beat the sonics on a modded and properly aligned Dyna FM-3. Put that one in your chimney and smoke it.Have yet to hear anything but a tubed circuit sound good in a tuner.

Since this thread began in 1999, we have flogged this to death. In the 48 years of this hobby have had damn near every tuner through here tube or solid state.

No other component you will add to a system is more dependent on an outside source than a tuner analog or digital. Much of its performance is dependent on signal transmitted.Environment signal is transmitted through. From there it becomes the antenna used. I have never found an inside antenna to have the performance of a good outside antenna. Then comes into play the tuner itself. there is a wealth of good used tuners on the market. But any 20 year plus tuner is going to need some work, just nature of the beast, be it analog or digital.

With the vast majority of radio stations now owned by a handful of corporate enitities such as Pilot and Clear Channel and others of that ilk, this almost becomes a moot point. Signals from FM these days do not have the strength they once had, when many of these stations were independents. Programming is for the most part dreadful.

As for me I have gone to the Polk XRT 12 XM radio tuner and have solved my problem. Great music, no commercials, and the antenna problem no longer exists for me and at the paltry sum of .43 cents a day for the monthly subscriptions I get the music I want to hear as well as a lot of other great music,news and sports, I would otherwise miss with an AM/FM convential tuner. And the good thing is the Polk XRT 12 Tuner looks like a system component and fits right in with the other gear in the rack.

And as of this post date, Crown has released a home XM Radio tuner.

I'm lucky enough right now to live in an area with 2 college radio stations, plus several local owned majors and a jazz station. It's a good deal; I had posted a thread trying to get someone to chime in with a farthest signal acquired (I'm leaving the area). Corporate radio is just such a cash cow, and now with HD you can't even mod a really good tuner anymore without getting digital garble in the spectrum... I had been reading something in Scientific American a few years ago about how the electromagnetic spectrum is a natural resource like any other, and it's becoming depleted by the FCC with no oversite accept corporate lobbyists. It really is grim, especially when you look at astro research and because of cellphones and satellite phones it's impossible to recieve and degauss effectively many of the smallest kinds of radio signals. Look at the trouble SETI@HOME has been having with their mathematical breakdowns. Now that it's down to, "Hey, why does it sound like I have Star Wars sound effects in the background on my favorite station?" and "My cell calls are being dropped all the time...", people are starting to notice. But like so many other things with those in power telling you "the jury's still out", it's probably already too late.

“Baselines are biased, when they appear, and the guys who run it all use more or less the same equipment (Kenwood), except for the one off-center guy who uses a *gasp* Sansui.”
---1st of all, the above is not true. 2nd, the site is actively supported by over 3700 members. and, the site’s opinions reflect the diversity of its members, not yust the opinions of the folks who run the site.

“FYI- I actually use a Kenwood tuner, but I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which is my point: Accuphase, Sansui, Sony and several others all made great tuners you can pick up for around $60 now, that sound as good as many things that are hundreds of dollars more.”
----i bought a modded kenwood kt-7550 – the tuna that is the “shootouts” author’s fave tuna. i liked it, but it was certainly not *my* fave. i have many other personal disagreements w/the shootouts rankings. but does this mean that i think the site has no useful info? absolutely not. i have a brain, & can separate the wheat from the chaff. ;~) actually the most meaningful statement in the shootouts, imo is where the author is comparing his top-dog kenwood l-02t tuna to the mid-pack pioneer f-91. (an excellent sounding tuna, imo, btw.) he states:
“...In a large room, in a big sound system, I might choose this Pioneer over the L-02T...”
i couldn’t agree more, that the differences between good tunas are in fact quite small; this statement illustrates this fact quite succinctly.

and, *PLEASE* - tell me where i can find a sansui tu-517 or better, or *any* accuphase tuna for $60! :>) not interested in the sony's; i already know of fantastic $60 tunas from philips/hitachi/nikko that aren't as ugly. ;~)

“I didn't say that spec's don't effect things, but then again spec's aren't everything... ... so basically spec's can mean whatever you want them to, based on how you measure them...”
---this cracks me up. earlier you complained that there aren’t specs or measurements, then you say they aren’t everything. :>)

“...Fm Tuner Info though "has the answers" on "what's best" in the tuner world. Which is almost always a heads up that you are dealing with either an idiot or a zealot. Saying it sounds "good" to you based on some meaningless baseline is neither engineering or science...”
---are you *sure* you didn’t just scan the tic? perhaps you are reading a different site than the one i am reading. the one *i* read makes it perfectly clear that it does *not* have the answers. that what sounds good to one person may *not* sound good to someone else. that a tuna that sounds mid-pack in one system may be the best sounding tuna in another system. this is one of the reasons i like the site so much. the engineering & science it *does* stress is that of quality alignment/parts/rf engineering. stuff that many contributors to the site know a hell of a lot about.

“It also has nothing to do with applied audio theory. Does anyone really believe that a 500w receiver from Best Buy is a true 500w and sounds better than a 20w tube amp? And anyway, what kind of 500w? Class A, AB or D? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.”
---again, i am not sure what site you are reading, cuz the above has nothing to do w/the tic which *i* read.

“For instance someone made a key statement above: the Marantz 10B "can be" one of the best tuners out there when aligned correctly, etc. Well of course it can: it has one of the biggest plates around, the 805 tube, and so by virtue of electric theory it must be one of the most sensitive and widest in audio bandwidth. But not acccording to FM Tuner Info.” Not the MR71 either. They found both "flabby" and "grainy". Well... you can pretty much stop right there, can't you? Because either they don't know how to properly align a tuner, they don't know how or when to change a tube, or they're deaf. I'm not a "the-more-expensive-it-is, the better it is" guy, but those two tuners are top notch."
---many many tuna aficionados do not like the 10b. actually, in the tuna world the 10b is a wery polarizing entity. and, i think the tic’s write-up of the 10b on its site is wery well-balanced, & accurately reflects the diwersity of opinion about this tuna. (in fact, one of the stellar attributes about the tic site, imo, is that it is so balanced in regards to most *every* tuna, giving, whenever possible, counterpoint opinions & other reference sources for those seeking more info.) so, no, i pretty much *can’t* stop right there. again, it has me questioning whether or not you are looking at the same tic i am looking at. another point re: the 10b - many tuna & marantz aficionados think that in fact the 20b was the best tuna marantz ever made.

and nowhere on the tic could i find the words flabby or grainy mentioned w/either the 10b or the mr71. mebbe you are referring to someone’s opinion on the yahoo forum? or another site altogether? and, most (if not all) the time, the state of a tuna’s refurb/alignment is stated when it’s being talked about. re: the technical abilities of folks like bob fitzgerald , bill ammons, mike zucarro, mike williams, ken bernacky, ed hanlon’s secret tech, mark wilson, terry dewick, etc; you will not find better qualified tuna technicians *ANYWHERE*. jus cuz *you* think the 10b & the mr71 are top-notch, doesn’t mean that they *are*. mebbe there's a disagreement about them between knowledgable people? mebbe others respect them, but like other tunas more? so this means that they are either poor techs, don’t know when to change a tube, or are deaf? and you say the tic is the group that has issues? lol! :>)

“One of the reasons I like 6 Moons even though many of their reviewers are about 180 degrees from where I am on the audiophile spectrum is they actually tell you what kind of music they like, the dB level they play it at, and what their favorite components and room treatments are, and how long they have had them. You can kind of relate to someone then, even if you wouldn't want their system. "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" isn't good enough... ...I mean seriously... ...would you buy a car from a guy who told you he had turned it on and it came on ok, so he's sure it "runs good"? I think not.”
---i like 6 moons also. but the: “"I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" statement isn’t even close to what the fmtunerinfo.com site is all about. not even a little bit close. like i said before, you either didn’t look at the site thoroughly (there is a *lot* of info there), or you are looking at some *other* site. because surely you can comprehend what you are reading. you can, can’t you? ;~)

ymmv,

doug s.