Phase inverting preamps

Sugarbrie, I think you still have phase and polarity mixed up. I read the web site you point out and he describes it correctly. But your explanation does not mesh with his. I do not intend to be picking on you as most of the other peolpe who have posted to this thread have also used the terms incorrectly.

I am not trying to sound like a know it all here, but there are so many incorrect usages of the terms phase and polarity in this thread that it is hard to keep up. I assume that some are interested in this since there have a number of posts on this. So I'll try one more time.

Out of phase means to be shifted in time. Something occurs earlier or later in time than it is supposed to. You cannot invert phase. The term "phase inversion" makes absolutely no sense. It should be stricken from the English language. You can no more invert phase than you can invert time.

Let's say you play a low note and a high note on an amplified electric guitar at the exact same time. But when it is played back on your stereo, you hear the low note and then the high note a little later. This is a phase shift.
They have been shifted in time. Nothing has been inverted.

Let's say when you play the low note, the initial movement of the speaker cone from the guitar amplifier is out. But when you play it back on your stereo, the initial movement is in. This is a polarity inversion.

If you hook up a battery to your speaker terminals, plus to plus and minus to minus, the woofer will move either in or out depending on how the speaker is wired up. If you reverse the battery, it will move the other way. This is a reversal of polarity. It has nothing to do with phase.

If you record a single cycle of a sine wave and play it back, the cone will move one way and then the other, say first in then out. If you reverse the speaker leads it will move first out then in. This is a polarity inversion. If you leave the speaker leads but hit the phase button on your CD player, It will also reverse to first out then in. This is also a polarity inversion, not a change in phase. The button is labeled incorrectly.

So can you correct for a recording that was recorded with inverted polarity? Yes, definitely. Just reverse the leads on your speakers or hit the incorrectly labeled phase button on your CD player or preamp.

Can you correct for phase shifts? Possibly but it would be very, very complex.

I guess I agree that a recording with the polarity wrong has no affect on the phase of your system. The + signal (and minus) of DC current going through your hardwired system cannot be reverse solely based on music encoded on a piece of media, whether, CD, LP, or Tape. That would defy the laws of physics.

If you had a recording with multiple microphones, where some microphones were in phase and some out of phase, some sounds may cancel out in part, which is why the recording sounds off. You system won't be feeding post positive and negative current to both speaker terminals at the same time. I hope you agree that is impossible.

Put another way; if a system is phase correct and a recording has sounds out of phase; your system reproduces for your ears to hear, what that out of phase music sounds like. That reproduction of the out of phase sound is in phase. If you reverse your speaker cables that sound is not in phase. You are hearing an out of phase sound, out of phase. It may end up sounding even worse.

Bowbow, I understood what you posted and I agree except for the part about DC current. You are right that it does not feed current in both directions at the same time. The current is AC, it alternates. First it flows in one direction and then the other. The rate at which it changes direction is called the frequency. Polarity has to do with which direction it starts.

However, the statement "If you reverse your speaker cables that sound is not in phase. You are hearing an out of phase sound, out of phase" is an excellent example of the point I was trying to make earlier about the misuse of these terms.

It should read: "If you reverse your speaker cables that signal will have it's polarity inverted. You are hearing an out of phase sound with incorrect polarity." I agree that this may end up sounding worse.

I know that some of you are saying enough already, what difference does it make? Well, it makes a huge difference if you are trying to understand what is going on in your system. If I think the woofer is the little speaker and the tweeter is the big one, then we are going to have a very confused conversation about speakers. If you do not understand what polarity means, then how can you hope to determine if your system polarity is correct? On the bright side, you have a 50/50 chance no matter what you do.

Thanks to all. The intent of my original post was to determine what need be done to account for the "inverse phasing" of a preamp (subsequently clarified to note that what they should REALLY say is reversed polarity). And, I now know that the connections at the speaker posts should be reversed. That being said, I have also appreciated the more in depth discussion of the difference between phasing and polarity. While I knew there was a difference I have enjoyed hearing the nuances of the differences and the reality of inconsistencies within recording mediums.

It never hurts to go into more detail, as long as you know what you're talking about! Those who find it boring or something they already know can easily click to the next topic. :-)