Soundstage - Too much?

david99: it's easiest, of course, to measure from the edges of your speakers. the measurements that usually count most, tho, are from the center of your speakers (if alingned or approximate center if not) and the vertical mid-plane of the surface(s) to which the drivers are attached. but, as sedond notes: "the farther the better" is the general rule of thumb, no matter how you measure.

Sedond. We are never going to convince each other so I wont push anymore. You have very keen observation skills and although I cant convince you maybe I can help. I highly recommend The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest. Its a heavy read at times but very imformative and covers all of the topics we were discusing. Enjoy!!

thanks for the tip, perfect image. regarding "convincing me", i guess the only way i could be convinced, would be to hear imaging improve as a speaker is moved closer to a side-wall! :>) 'til now, as previously said, i've found the opposite to be true.

perhaps, i'm misunderstanding a bit, if you define *precise imaging* as something that comes at the expense of a wide soundstage. i've found this to be true when comparing different models of speakers - i.e.: some models seem to have a wide stage at the expense of specific image placement across the stage, while others' image specificity is more precise, w/the soundstage rarely extending past the edges of the speakers. (i'm searching for *both*!) but, even regarding these distinctions, i have found *both* to be improved the farther away a speaker gets from the side-wall.

regards, doug

I think the problem lies in my inability to explain it. There are so many varibles to acoustics. I think when you are moving in the speaker you moving it closer to its sweet spot. You wouldnt put the speakers side by side and you wouldnt put them against the wall. The best spot will be wherever that paticular speaker and the room work best with each other. Like when you focus a camera manualy. To much either way makes it out of focus.

When you move the speaker you are also changing its reflection points all over the room. The ceiling, back wall, front wall, and floor. There are also secondary reflection points which are also changed. The other reflection points are the reason you dont want your speaker the same distance from the side wall that it is from the back wall. Or that when you tow in your speakers you dont want the back facing the corner. They all have a drastic effect on each other

Also the end of the sound stage isnt the furthest point you hear an instrument imaged. Its the size of the room that your system sounds like its playing in. The neaunces that makes your system sound like it is in a bigger room are the also the benefits of good imaging.

I cant stress how great that book is. It breaks down frequency, sound waves, and will even give you basic mathmatical equations to plot resonate modes for your room. It even gets into what would happen if you put your system in a feild. All your observations are obvios traits of a great ear. That combined with the knowledge of that book would give you a great set up. A properly set up system is by far the largest upgrade you could ever make.

hi perfectimage,

i agree w/what y say above, especially: "All your observations are obvios traits of a great ear...." ;~)

seriously, i tink your 1st paragraph sums it up pretty well, & also sums up why i 1st disagreed w/ya - i am fortunate enuff to have a large listening-room, where the 25'-long wall is the *short* wall. this allows placement for optimal *precise-image* placement, knowing that the soundstage width is only limited by quality of the software, speakers, & electronics - i will *never* be placing the speakers close enuff to the side-walls to adwersely affect soundstage width. your statement about moving speakers to get that optimum position - far enuff away from each other, yet not too close to the side walls, is typical of smaller listening spaces, & what i used to do before i moved to a house w/a large room a few years ago. i feel best results in a smaller room wood be to start with trying to optimize the distance between the speakers vs-listening distance, and then heavily treat the side-walls at the 1st-reflection-point.

i believe that the room is by *far* the single-most important piece of equipment in an audio system.

regards, doug