Better sound quality than the I-pod?

Actually I've probably done too much reading. Negative comments I've read about the Ipod's sound seem to generalize that they're bass deficient and a bit bright/shrill.

I'm looking for an idea of relative sound quality between the best players where the supplied headphones aren't a factor. I'll be using seperate phones.

the I-river are far more musical sounding than the Apple products. Plus, if you find an IHP series from last year, you can play uncompressed WAV files, and they have an optical digital output so you can connect to an external dac, have a battery-powered hard disk as the source, and with a jitter clock, have what may be the best transport source available.

I have an Ipod, and find it easier to use, and the playlists are great. But the IRiver sounds better and the batterry charge lasts FAR longer.

The SHURE EC series headphones are great.

I have a Creative-Zen Micro and I'm very happy with the sound quality, size and features. Go to c-net for reviews and comparisons.

You need to go out and listen for yourself I guess. I'm pretty anal and I would never call the Ipod shrill. I have noticed that the bass is stronger using line out and an outboard amp versus the internal amp. I would never call it deficient though.
And while an optical out would be fun to play with, I don't think it can measure up (literally and figuratively) to a usb output from a computer.
Steve