Why even bother?

>How any audiophile could be serious about having tuner in >his of her system?
>What is your opinion?

My opinion is you have no clue about FM. Like a turntable needs to be setup, an FM installation also needs to be setup to work properly and deliver the best sound.

Suprised?

The antenna system is the primary consideration. It can't be an after thought, like a dipole tossed behind the equipment rack. The dynamic range in stereo FM is directly related to the signal strength. Without a strong, multipath free signal, you'll never be optimized to hear what FM can offer.

This usually means a large, multi-element, dedicated FM antenna on a rotor, and high quality low loss cable to the tuner. Make an investment here first, THEN start listening to what FM can offer. If you pick a tuner from the top 20 list of Jim's shootout list (www.fmtunerinfo.com), you'll likely do OK for a stock unit.

A modded and aligned unit will sound even better. Ed at APS sells them, for a less than most audiophiles spend for high end speaker cables.

If you want to fet an idea of what can be had in your area for diversity of listening, try antering your zip code into www.radio-locator.com
Do an advanced search after the initial results, and check "fringe reception" - with a good antenna as above, and a decent aligned tuner, you'll get all the fringe stations easily in clear stereo.

I guess that's my opinion.

-Bob

"How any audiophile could be serious about having tuner in his of her system?"

Only Sidssp seems to have the right response to this.

no, kjg, sid is wrong; it is also how fantastic the music sounds! ;~)

re: which cheap tuna to try, everyone has their faves. go to fmtunerinfo.com to read about different tuna. jim rivers' shootouts are a fascinating guide, but not the final answer. be aware that this is one man's system, in a small room, & while an excellent system, it is *not* a true full range system. for example, jim himself sez he might prefer one tuna ranked somewhere in the 20's in his list over his fave - if he had his rig in a bigger room. (this also shows how closely ranked his top tunas really are.) also, he still prefers his modded lowly kenwood kt-7500 to *any* of the tunas on his shootout list.

antenna *is* important. rooftop-mounted directional is best, if possible. for cost no object, ed hanlon's aps-13 is regarded as best. (unless, of course, ya wanna pay him more for a custom antenna!) next best, imo, is the winegard hd-6065, at ~1/3 the cost. better than the aps-9, which is about half-way between each, price-wise. i am in a difficult reception area, & went from an earlier iteration of the aps-13 (the aps-14, supposedly even better), to the winegard, & had zero reception or sonic change. if ya must use indoor, i like the now-discontinued archer/rat-shack 15-1833. find 'em on ebay, etc. these are tunable, yust like the tuna itself. some folk like tv-style rabbit ears.

for mods & service, i'd recommend stephen sank (don't expect it back soon, tho), bill ammons, or joseph chow. for service w/o mods, add mike zuccaro to the list. ed hanlon also does a good job, but i wouldn't recommend him if you want feedback as to what he's actually doing. he got all testy w/me on a coupla occasions, accusing me of trying to steal his secrets & then diy. if i wanted to diy, i could get info to learn right from fmtunerinfo. com & its sister yahoo tuner forum. go figure. also, i know a lot of folk like don scott, but i (and others on the fmtunerinfo forum) don't recommend him because he aligns & adjusts filters "by ear", & you really need proper electronics testing gear for tuna.

for the tuna itself, well there are literally dozens! my present #1 is a highly-modded (by stephen sank) harmon-kardon citation 18. but, the next group is so close, i could really be happy w/any of 'em. philips 185, sumo charlie (ya have to get the ones w/rack handles, as these were the only ones adjusted by james bongiorno before they left the factory. unless, of course, ya send it, along w/$500 to james for a refurb & mods!), mitsubishi da-f20, hitachi ft-8000, rotel rt-2100, accuphase t101...

then, there's a whole slew of others that are also really close, but they're either a hair off the pace, (and i *do* mean a microscopic hair), or they're a bit more $$$ and not worth it unless you have an emotional attachment. :>) again, if these are modded, they're gonna get better. and again, i could also be really happy w/any of these. technics st-8600, onix bwd1 w/soap-2, revox b760, revox b261, tandberg 3001a, sansui tu-517/719/9900, bill-ammons-modded heathkit aj1600, stephen-sank-modded mcintosh mr65b (lousy sensitivity, tho), yamaha t2, meridian 204. (and, i have four euro-tuners that i could add to the list, if they were adjusted to the usa-standard 75us de-emphasis, instead of the euro-standard 50us; as it stands now, they are a tad bright in the treble: saba ts-2000, restek d2, philips 186, & b&o beolab 5000.)

one special note about the kenwoods - unless yure gonna spend big money on something like the l-o2t, i'd strongly suggest only a modded iteration. why? well, i had a mint kt-9900, supposedly one of their better iterations. it *was* beautiful, & had excellent reception, w/loads of detail. but, the sound was not at all dimensional. i asked bill ammons about it, thinking mebbe mine was in severe need of alignment or something. he assured me, that based upon my description of its operation & sound, that in fact this is the case w/the kenwoods - a *lot* of sonic potential is left hidden inside. which is likely why the kt-7500, which ranks almost at the bottom of jim rivers' shootout list, vaults to the #1 position after it's modded....

i may have inadvertently forgotten one or two. ;~) but, the point is that there are *lots* of gems out there that won't cost ya a fortune, & for a moderate investment in mods (at minimum, service/alignment is a prerequesite, imo), you will have a fantastic sounding piece of audio gear that will give you free music.

doug s.,
so many tunas, so little time... :>)

Thanks Doug, for the very detailed response. I guess it's time for some deep sea fishing now ;-)

"Only Sidssp seems to have the right response to this."

The "music over sound" thing is always there, that's pretty obvious, regardless of the source, right?

We have some very serious audiophiles contributing to our tuner discussion. For an example, take a peek at David's system in the Richochet section http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ricochets.html
-Bob