Gryphon vs. McIntosh

@Kiwi thanks for pointing to your review. Great privilege to meet you here as I was already familiar and I read all your reviews with great interest, already some times ago. I also read other reviews of high class integrated and found them very interesting and thorough.

As far as my system and Golden Cross IC is concerned. This is my latest optimization that I did after a lot of trying and Cardas Golden Cross ICs brought the best music presentation into my system. I tried also with totally different IC cables like Nordost Red Dawn, Nordost Tyr, Nordost Valhalla, Oyaide Across 750RR, Van Den Hul the First, Oehlbach and some others. Cardas gave the music the essence and more spirit, and more meat to the bones. This is what I like and I did not find it slow at all. I think I made a nice circle where now my current Musical Fidelity A308 Dual Mono integrated is the weakest link and needs to be changed eventually. That's why I started to look for some better integrated. But will take some time, will explore, will discuss and will sure also listen to different options when the situation emerges.

So a question to you. Are you maybe familiar with Gryphon Tabu? I like its character a lot and is exactly what I'm looking for. I know that describing the character of some equipment is hard as it is sometimes totally subjective matter and depends also on the other components inside the system. But even though I think that you provided lot's of interesting reviews and I know also some reference music that you used during your reviews and maybe I will understand what you mean to say.

Some describe Gryphon Tabu as a bit dark, gryphonaudio said it is romantic. I would hard to say that if that is what suppose to be dark presentation. Maybe i don't know?! Romantic, maybe as I fell in love with it after 2 hours of listening. I was cemented to the chair :).
I just think that I heard the music the right way through it.

How would you evaluate the character of the MA7000 then? I liked it when I listened music through it. Is a character of MA7000 again dark ?

I now think and wonder that development of Gryphon went another way with Callisto and now Diablo and Atilla series. On some forum where one user had all of them, he said that it is not the same Gryphon as it was before with Tabu so it leans also a bit towards the analytical side. So maybe somebody can this understand as a tad bright? But I can not judge that at all, did not heard them yet.

What interest me are the @Gryphonaudio comments on the development of the character from Tabu series and all the way to Diablo. They are short but still interesting to read them. Romantic is changed now with neutrality and still there is presence of that grip and control that was present in Tabu? So maybe it is true that Tabu was a bit dark and Atilla and Diablo are more towards neutral. As I said already, I like the meaty sound of Tabu. Thick, fast, controlled. Music was with the guts this is what strike me the most. And no matter what I trow into the CD everything sounded good. Also bad recording sounded good. And that is one of the indications that we are dealing here with some really nice piece of equipment. Is that also preserved with Callisto, Atilla and Diablo?
Some of the reviews I read about Diablo said that it is highly dependent on what you throw in so this gives me a bit of discomfort.

You know, I don't like the equipment where you need only audiophile CDs to listen so that music sounds good on the system. I also like to throw into my CD a Pop from the 80s which is usually one of the worst recorded. And if that sounds good then I sense that I'm close to find my mate in the Hi-Fi to accompany me.

thanks for your kinds answers, best d.

Having been completely familiar with both products, I first thought the Post was kidding in asking for a comparison...mainly because there is NO comparison.
MAC is good gear, and some swear by it...I understand this...appreciate that certain 'sound' or look has great, sometimes even Universal appeal...hence Mac's years of success. However....however...
I went to Binghamton (long time ago) McMasters Training for their seminar over a couple of days.
They do a great and admirable job with their equipment...I came to be a big fan of their products...BIG Fan...but I can make no pretense that there's any comparison in sound between the Mac and the Gryphon.
Gryphon, to my ear, borders on the mystical...sounds silly, but true...it's so alluring (think tied to the mast in Homer's work, lol).
I owned a Callisto 2100, not even the 'big one' the 2200...and it slayed, Ayre, Conrad Johnson, (sorry Bill and Lew), Krell, Mac, separates and it was not close...AND this was not MY single impressions, but several people over the course of several days of a/b/c/d/ listening sessions in a store in Nashville, TN.
There's a thing that happens in audio, in which one passes over the obvious, and music becomes so realisitic and fun, and life like that the illusion is almost complete...it doesn't happen easily or quickly, but it can and does happen...so it was with Gryphon.
Funny...even devotees of the other gear would simply shake their head and say, 'Wow...that's not close'...words to that effect...surprised, supremely surprised at the difference.
Back some 20 years ago, I sold 11 of the 13 Gryphon preamps (rosewood knobs, gold flashed back plates, and $9000. back when $9K was more than now) that they brought into the US.
I literally, could hook an Adcom 555 Amp to the Gryphon preamp and make it sound remarkable...this forever changed my understanding of preamps and their value to a system.
Your last comment, Delfineck...'I don't like the equipment where you need only audiophile CD's to listen'....hit the mark with me.
When I designed the LSA speakers, the acid test was...can I listen to any 'worthy music'...and have a musical experience?
So it is with Gryphon...this is NO COMPARISON...Gryphon is in a different category of excellence when compared to Mac.
These words and thoughts transcend opinion.

Good listening,
Larry

Hi Delfincek,

I will do my best to address your questions.

The Gryphon Tabu has been out of production for many years and my only experience with it has been in a dealers system (not my own) so my comments need to be read with some caution. I found the Tabu to be a high quality instrument both in terms of design and sound. The Tabu has an extremely robust power supply design and this is important because with audio amplification one is ultimately listening to the power supply. I know that seems odd but as you would have read from my reviews the differences in mediocre and superb amplification often in my experience come down the capability of the power supply. Well-designed high power amplifiers typically possess large and heavy power supplies with high current capability which is demonstrated by their ability to increase output power into low impedances. Since it is current that ultimately drives the cones in your loudspeakers back in forth it is actually the amplifiers power supply design, not some lofty and frequently misrepresented wattage moniker, which underpins perceptions of sound quality. Since high current capability comes from massive power supplies and lots of output transistors, all of which are expensive items, well designed high powered amplifiers don’t come cheaply and this is true of the Gryphon range.

Turning now to the sound – the Tabu deviates from neutrality but does not in my opinion deviate so far as to label it “romantic” as ‘Gryphonaudio’ describes. I’d reserve such an adjective more for all valve softies rather than solid state brutes. Further, when referenced against the Diablo the Tabu is not as open in the top end of the audio spectrum and the Diablo trumps the Tabu in both resolution ( particularly reproduction of ambient detail ) and sound staging which is more vast with the Diablo and further grows as you climb up the Gryphon product range. The Diablo also exceeds the Tabu in terms of dynamics and localisation of instruments and actors. However, the Diablo needs careful matching to the source and speakers because there isn’t much in the way of tonal warmth. I’ve paired the Diablo with a Cary source because the source provides a hint of warmth to the proceedings. Further, the Diablo isn’t the quietest high powered integrated in the market – that gong would probably go to the Rowland Continuum C-500 and the Diablo runs very hot drawing over 200 watts at idle due to its class A operation for the first 20 watts (approx).

So, what is right for you? Well your view on Cardas cables immediately clues me that neutral is not for you. You clearly prefer added weight to the bass, the addition of some tonal colour and some attenuation in the upper treble. Summed, this gives many listeners the perception of “more meat on the bones” and an added sense of musicality. On this basis I imagine the Tabu would fit you very nicely indeed but do also consider (if you can) other options including the LSA Signature and the AMR AM-77. Good luck.

Delfincek,

First of all, I'm surprised you found the Tabu as 'dark', and even more surprised that Gryphonaudio called it 'romantic', as it is not how I remember the Tabu. It probably much depends on what do you compare the amp to.

Compared to Callisto, I found the tabu to be a bit dry sounding. Callisto, especially the 2200 which is much better and a bit warmer sounding, has much more organic presentation than Tabu. The sound is more lush, more fluid, has more texture. At the same time, Callisto has more resolution, its faster, and more articulate. It is just much more transparent than the Tabu, without sounding etched or analytical in anyway.

This is really an outstanding stuff. I have written a review of 2100 vs Mac6900 for a Polish magazine, but also had at home the 2200 and Tabu, both the big one and Tabu AT.

I cannot stop wondering, why this stuff isn't distributed in the US !

Hiya guys Lrsky, Kiwi and Elberoth. That are really good quality answers. I appreciate them a lot!

I need to thank you all for very vivid and detailed description on where you position Gryphon and McIntosh on your experiences. I see that you based your comment mostly on the experience gained with different Gryphons and how it compare to other Gryphon gear (Callisto 2100, Tabu) and also other makers.

A comparison between Callisto 2100 and Diablo and Tabu and Diablo gave me again more understanding of the difference between these two fine amplifiers. I'm lucky here only at one spot that my friend who is living not far from me has Gryphon Tabu and I'm looking forward the time when he will be so good to lend me it again for a test with my current setup which is consisted from Anthony Gallo Ref. 3.5 speakers, Anthony Gallo Ref. speaker wires, MF Nuvista 3D CDP and Cardas Golden Cross ICs. Really wonder what Gryphon can do on it. I liked it on my previous rather more budget system a lot and I think that is how I still carry that sound in my head which is somehow hypnotically good.

What strikes me the most is that some of your observations goes practically parallel with the observations from Frederic Beudot from 6moons who in 2010 reviewed Gryphon Diablo and gave it also best marks. From the review I can identify a remarkable good piece of equipment that is putting forward honest musical truth. What scares me a little is that careful matching is of great importance, also selecting sources on the warm side is a +, the same with speakers. I wonder that he is compensating with this a little to achieve best liking :). Am I wrong? Do I read wrong?
He also mentions that selecting of source material (CDs) that are good recorded will be crucial with Diablo. But he noted a problem when it comes to bad recordings where Diablo is not making any compromises and will put it like it is. So I'm scared a little about that claim. What I also read with a great interest from Frederic (6moons) review is that he mentions also Gryphon Atilla which has a touch of a warmth and forgiveness. And that is giving me a little more reassuring words that maybe this is piece of equipment I might be looking even more. I wonder now on what basis he state this claim as his review is only about Diablo and he did not had Atilla by that time.
Question opened and sure one thing I would like to explore too what is the difference between small brother Atilla and big brother Diablo. :) I know I need to hear it, best on my system in my room, but where is a luck to grab it for test?

Kiwi you somehow identified a character of musical presentation that is to my liking and I think I must give you a prize :). I like it bold, meaty a tad warmish and most importantly sibilance is my poison of death which i don't like. And as Lrsky said I adore the equipment with which I can listen any kind of recordings.

And last but not least about the myth of "Dark character" of Gryphon Tabu. This is one of the sentence I heard so frequently from different people from forums, magazines and also my friends who are some Hi-Fi freaks say this. What I wanted to say in my previous post is that I can not say that Gryphon Tabu is dark. I found it detailed, musical, maybe a tad warm and away from sibilance. And very listenable for hours. But I don't understand what dark character means. Maybe music coming from dark background? I sensed very well defined boundaries, great body of the instruments which I could visualize and almost touch and great voices. Great control of the speaker units like Gryphon is playing with them effortlessly. Very relaxing and very involving at the same time. Maybe that makes it dark? I don't know. As I said I was hypnotized as a stone by it and sat in one position for hours as I could not move.

Elberoth I'm also interested in that review of yours. Even though if it is in Polish. I will try to help myself with google translate. If you have it I would be glad if you can share it here with us.

Thanks guys looking forward to hear from you,
best, del.