"Burn in" Are you serious?

Do we know the boundaries of quantum physics? Did Max Planck explain it fully or just make us aware of its existence for others to expand on? Will we ever understand it fully? Yes indeed Bmpnyc here we go round and round in the "Circle Game". I agree with the proponents, for whatever its worth. Have heard it on some gear and not on others. Why? It is one of those things that hasn't and to date can't be fully described scientifically. Those inquiring minds that do hear it and ask why and are perservering enough to find an answer may one day be able to explain it to the rest of us.

Brulee: You ask a very fair question, and the answer is, No. If I had experienced the same change that Perfectimage experienced, I would not conclude that burn-in was a real phenomenon. The reason I wouldn't should be obvious from my previous posts: I could not be sure whether the change I perceived was caused by a physical change in the equipment or by my own acclimation to the sound. I would be more willing to attribute that change to burn-in if some physical explanation were available. I'd also be more willing to attribute it to burn-in if someone were to demonstrate that acclimation doesn't really happen. Until that time, I remain a skeptic. You're free to remain a believer. And anyone who's on the fence (lurkers, obviously, not posters) can consider both our points of view, do their own listening, do their own reading, and make up their minds for themselves. You and I are both helping them do that, which is why I think these theological arguments really are worthwhile.

Jostler3, well said.

I always subscribed to the idea of burn-in previously, having experienced the sound of a new component blooming and evolving over time. I've also put new components into my system that never became appealing no matter how long they seasoned (usually cables). As a result of this thread I tried a little experiment with new and burned-in cables. I bought a new set of Cardas Golden Reference interconnect, 1m length, for my turntable. Instead I thought it would be better to use the new cable on the CD player and transfer my existing identical but burned-in cable from the CD player to the turntable. This gave me an opportunity to compare the two cables to each other with relative ease by listening carefully to the old cables on the CD then replacing them with the new. Much to my surprise I heard very little difference, if any. The new cables sounded great right out of the box. And Cardas is one of the strongest proponents for burn-in. Go figure. Given the disparity of experience expressed here it's clear that burn-in has many complex variables. My simple experiment can hardly be extrapolated to the broader context of burn-in but it's got me thinking. Great thread!

It never ceases to fascinate me at the ultimate degeneration of virtually all audio forums into a widespread bitch session about 'cables'. With almost religious fervor the two camps bellow and dispute & very rarely do the twains meet, even for a cup of tea. I am quite frankly amazed that people can really care THAT much about what other folks beliefs are with regards to the topic. I have personally concluded, through my modest experimentation in the audiophile realms, that we are dealing with a very abstract notion here. I think components and systems do ultimately rely on an intricate synergy of wire, transformers, capacitors, plugs, etc. which all combine and interact in a unique fashion that certainly creates a particular sonic character. Is this character 'better' than another system? Maybe...maybe not. One system's technical specs may measure out in a most immaculate fashion, but sound good to no-one. I will say, and this is not simply my notion, that we cannot conclusively measure everything we hear with empirical scientific data. Just as you cannot measure everything you taste, feel, and smell with your other senses and how they are thus interpreted by your mental faculties. Specs could probably measure out equally on two different units but exhibit entirely different characters. Why? I don't really know. It is a very complex issue. The audiophile hobby often approaches a passion akin to that of the alchemists from days long past. It may have been their ultimate quest to "turn lead into gold" as it were but the ultimate result was a transformation of themselves in the process. I leave you with one notion to ponder. It is a field of scientific thought that enters the realm of abstraction inherent in fields such as quantum physics but is certainly food for thought. A gentleman by the name of Heisenberg established the principle of Indeterminism which, recognized the discovery that the act of measuring always alters that which is being measured. This, of course, turns our everyday experiences into a continuous and unrepeatable evolutionary process. On that note, I've just gotta say happy listening to all and Merry Christmas.