Reviewing the Reviewers

After reading Treljas' first post here, I must agree 100%. I hate to see him take so much hate-mail for stating his opinion.

For the record, I've been in CES showrooms where highly accredited reveiwers didn't realise that the tweeter section on one side was disconnected. And, the same room recieved high praise in the show report from the very same reveiwer!

Many base their opinion soley on what is reported by the reveiwers, rather than rely on themselves. Why not trust yourselves? Do I feel like an annoited one? No, just a music lover, who has adequate hearing and logic to base my own conclusions. I feel that many of us here, like Trelja and myself, feel the same but will sit this one out to avoid confrontation.

And from reading Fremers response, stating that advertising revenue makes and breaks an audio magazine, don't you think that there may be some favoritism? Remember back in the early eighties when Car and Driver claimed that the Audi quatro was the finest sports/touring auto of the day? Did you happen to see how many pages of ad Audi had? Don't hate me, just give this serious thought.

Oh come on Trelja, not much point in digging for Djjd's motivation. You give him too much attention. I first thought about responding, that he was comparing pears with apples a tad unfairly and that his irony was heavyhanded..but then I stood back from the idea thinking it not worth the trouble. This guy probably just loves to hear himself talk. YAWN.

Djjd I guess the air is indeed full of irony as you anticipated it would in your last paragraph. No surprises there given your attack on Trejla which sounds personal to me. All I read in Trejla's remarks was a personal distain for a particular writer and see little correlation with the points made by Salvadore who was basically presenting his case as objective truth and using hot buttons that most audiophiles would agree with. That is the irony and hyprocisy I saw. A self-appointed savior breaking things down and assuming a bit more than he let on.

Hi Trelja - Thanks for the challenge; I like a good argument. It would be easily to get into a shouting match with you, but I think there’s too much hostility in the world already, and I don’t want to add any more. So I’ll try to keep it civil.

What would you like to know about me? Here’s all you should need to know for your next salvo. I’m probably not as smart as I think I am, but I hope I’m smarter than I sometimes act. Admittedly over-educated, but I don’t use this against others (some of the smartest people I’ve met never had the chance to go to college). I spend most of my time working on ecological problems, but I feel we’re now losing the battle, and the world looks pretty dark to me these days. Music helps.

I don’t work for any audio-related dealer or manufacturer. Never have, probably never will. No relationships with anyone in the audio business either (though I’ve made a few friends on Audiogon I hope). I don’t get any "endorsement" freebies, deals, or discounts on audio gear from any dealers or manufacturers. Never have, probably never will. I buy all my gear new or used just like many of the other people here. My average income is less than $20k a year; always has been since I got my first job pumping gas at $2/hour. Not a trust-fund baby. Still paying off student loans. At my urging, my parents have been spending what little prospect I have of an inheritance. Never owned a new car or a house. Probably never will. Not impressed by money; detest greed and waste. Impressed by good music and other things sublime or beautiful (including a clever idea or a good argument). Spend most of my spare change on music. Not a saint; make my share of mistakes (including a few whoppers). Not afraid to admit I'm wrong.

Been an audiophile since mid 1970’s. Still have my original top-of-the-line Akai 8-track player/recorder (boxed up now with a bunch of old tapes) and Nakamichi RX-505 cassette deck (sees occasional use and remains enjoyable). I don’t profess to know more than you or anyone else here; I’ve actually learned quite a bit at Audiogon (even a little from you). I think everyone has something positive to contribute, even if they don’t always say things I can agree with. I think every audio product on the market (well almost every one) has some merit when used in the right system or with the right recordings or by the right listener. I think people should be nice to each other. I try to set a positive example. I like Audiogon because there are some genuinely classy and intelligent people here -- a really interesting and diverse community of folks; most everyone is respectful and interested in learning more; a quantum leap above the other sites, I’d say. I think you (and a few others) could be more polite in the way you present some of your opinions on Audiogon. But I know I can’t control that. I will nevertheless continue to give the occasional nudge. Too bad if that chaps you or seems condescending (probably is - no apologies).

From your line of questioning, you probably think I’m pissed at you for criticizing certain products in your post “Trelja in NY”. Actually not the case though. I can’t say what you did or didn’t hear at the NY show, and it was never my point to debate you on that. For instance, I own Talon speakers and completely disagreed with your characterization of them, but I didn’t try to dispute what you say you heard because I couldn’t go to the show to hear that system in that room for myself. (If you’d like to engage in a debate on this product, I’m ready and willing, but Talon products can readily defend themselves when auditioned in a proper setting.) If you read my NY post again, I think you’ll see I didn’t actually defend Talon or any other manufacturers at the NY show. If some manufacturers didn’t set up their systems properly to show their gear in a favorable light, they deserve some criticism. In your NY show thread, a few people criticized some of the same products you did, and even though I didn’t agree with some of what they said either, I didn’t have a problem with their remarks because they generally allowed for the possibility that room set-up or other factors may have contributed to what they heard. My problem with your NY review was that you didn’t allow for such possibilities (except, as I recall, for saying some products other than Talon were played too loud). This seemed unfair and lacking in objectivity, and I said so. I know I’m flogging a dead horse with this -- asked and answered -- but you wanted me to put it all out on the table, so here it is again.

In addition, when I read your post about the NY show, I also recalled the very harsh comments you made about Michael Fremer in this “Reviewing the Reviewers” thread. Your NY show review therefore struck me as being extremely hypocritical, as did your scathing remarks about Fremer. I singularly detest hypocrisy (sometimes guilty of it myself, but at least I try very hard to avoid it). It always eats away at me until it boils over and I have to say something about it.

So I vented. And I did so knowing this would subject me to retaliatory attacks from you and a few others like you. I didn’t hide behind the rating system; I did what I think all others here should do -- when something’s bothering them, spit it out in the most polite way they can. What I said apparently bothered a few people, and they said so. Good for them. Their comments didn’t hurt me (I expected some backlash), though it did compel me to carefully re-examine my remarks in the context of their statements. After doing so, I still feel comfortable with what I said and how I said it. If I didn’t, I’d offer you and the others an apology. But I think I'm right on this one, so I stand by what I've said, with no reservations or regrets, and you’ll therefore get no apology from me.

The instant thread asked for “reviews of the reviewers.” I think my remarks about you (and a few other Audiogoners) fall within the scope of this topic. When criticizing someone else, you’ve gotta be prepared to reap what you sew. Doesn’t feel so good when you’re on the receiving end, does it? Nonetheless, I don’t think I was overly hostile or mean-spirited in what I’ve said thus far. (Other than using the word “hypocrisy” and mentioning that you’ve lost my respect, the only mean words I directed at you were your own, and even then, I found more polite substitutes to use.) I also tried to add some levity to my remarks (bad analogies and good ironies are always good for a laugh). Finally, I tried to provide an example of how someone can disagree and even criticize without being mean or vicious. Again, I don’t expect you to follow the example -- you can keep saying whatever you want to say in whatever way you want to say it. But maybe someone else will hear what I’m trying to say, and perhaps this will make Audiogon a slightly less antagonistic place for those who are put-off by libelous, slanderous, or disparaging comments like some of your’s. (For those of you out there who actually enjoy reading vitriolic attacks, I might suggest getting some counseling or watching some pro-wrestling or daytime talk-shows to address that craving. Music is supposed to be fun, not hostile.)

Trelja - if you have any other questions about me or about why I said what I did, I’ll be glad to see if I can provide some more answers for you. However, I don’t think any more explanation will resolve this controversy, and I think we’re now trying to squeeze water out of a stone. So if it's OK with you, I'd prefer to get back to music. But, by all means, keep blasting away if that'll do it for you.

Don

Djjd, I am not the attacking type of person. Despite the streak you seem to have found me in. I will not attack you. In fact, I will compliment you. For standing up like a man, and presenting yourself. All in a rational, sane, intelligent way. You seem to be a very admirable person. The first few paragraphs show you to be exactly the type of person I most root for in life. That is why I am not that big a fan of Fremer. However, if you read my reply to Sean(who said Fremer is actually a good guy in person), you will see my take on him mellowed after that. But, I still have problems with him in my favorite magazine(the only one I care enough about to subscribe to). I am sorry if I came across as arrogant, obnoxious, or mean spirited. Hopefully, you will believe me when I tell you I detest those things, and try my hardest not to be anything like that. I am simply a guy who loves audio, and loves music. If my passion gets the best of me, perhaps I need to be reigned in. I do try to be forever vigilant in this hobby. Looking for the value products, eschewing those I find to be sheep in wolves clothing. I do agree(for the most part) that almost every product can be good in some system. My derivesivness at Talon was more out of sense of disappointment in the way they sounded to me, at the show. I have seen this product talked about in such polarizing arguments. Some love them, some hate them. Based on what I heard at the show, I fall into the second group. Without a doubt. I would allow that a broken in pair(if those at the show were not), in a good room, might just make me smile. Always willing to give a product a second, third, or fourth chance. The truth is, I want to love EVERY product in this industry. Why not? I have a voracious apetite for everything in this hobby. While I cannot buy everything, I want to at least derive pleasure from it in another's system, through an audition, or at a show. You are correct, I have criticized a fair amount of products. All of which I have expected so much from(don't think I react so strongly to value equipment that I find lacking), only to be let down. Just like the Legacy speakers you mentioned previously. I lusted after them for so long as a teenager. For years, I read their literature and specs. One day I found a used pair for sale. If they were too far to be auditioned, I would have bought them sound unheard. But, the dealer happened to be local. I went there flying above the clouds, foaming at the mouth to buy them. Then... Nothing. Talk about letdowns. I gave them more(many) chances. Same reaction. My biggest disappointment in audio. How could I NOT love them? This started me on a new quest. I am still on it. To actually use my ears, rather than my eyes to listen to equipment. Yes, I probably am too emotional about this hobby. Please accept my apology for any words said in less than civil tones. Hopefully, we can now shake hands, and move on.