What Are Your Audio Morals?

First of all...all of this used equipment had to be new once, right? Someone must have purchased it from a dealer at one time or another. Besides, a seller of used gear may very well take their profits and use them to buy something new from a dealer. Many of us may buy used, but I don't think we're the majority.

I have plenty of hi-end shops in my city (maybe ten? twenty?), and I honestly don't like dealing with many of the stores that I've visited. Lots of pompous, know-it-all sales guys out there (who don't actually know anything). I never go back to their stores and demo their gear, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if I ended up buying the very same item used.

I patronize the nicer, friendlier stores as much as possible, but many stores tend to carry the same items and they're usually not what I'm interested in hearing. We may have twenty stores in my area, but most of my system wasn't available from any of my local dealers. One dealer did offer me a preamp demo unit for $3800 ($200 off for the demo...wow!), and I ended up buying a used unit on Audiogon for $1700. Could that dealer honestly expect me to pay him $2100 more for...literally...nothing? I was in his store for 20 minutes, and actually talked to him for 5 at the most. I never actually listened to his unit, because none of his other components were similar to mine...I didn't see the point. I don't make enough money to give $2100 away just to be nice.

I know that there are many people who take full advantage of the dealers service, demos, in-home set-up, troubleshooting, etc, but I'm not one of them. I did buy my Linn LP12 from a dealer, and they did set deliver it and set it up for me. After discovering this site, I don't know if I would ever do that again. I mean...I basically paid a $2000-$3000 delivery fee. I'm glad that they have a gorgeous storefront in an expensive neighborhood, they're well stocked with gear, and they always have four sales guys standing around, but that doesn't mean that I should pay for it. I'm all for guys like Rick Brkich (Signature Sound) who make their home their shop. It's a tough business that fluctuates with the economy...why add unnecessary overhead? I'd rather not pay for it. Some people like the fancy stores, the salesmen in ties, the illusion of prestige...that's fine with me...let them pay for it.

Morality? Difficult situation. I agree with Macm above. We all window shop and compare stuff without intending to take advantage of our local dealers.

(1) You visit your local high end salon and listen to speakers you can't afford. You spend a lot of time and ask a lot of questions and because you're a nice guy the dealer spends his time with you knowing, because youve been honest with him, that you cant afford to buy from him. Maybe he'll refer one of his customers to you with a used pair for sale. Later on, you see the speakers advertised on Audiogon for a song and buy them. Nothing wrong with that as long as you were up-front with the dealer and he knew he was volunteering his time. But wrong if you gave him the impression that you were a buyer.

(2) You visit your local dealer and listen to a pair of bargain speakers that you know can be bought on-line at a discount. The retail value ($300) is not enough for the local dealer to spend time with you and give you much of a discount. The dealer is a jerk, has BO and a foul mouth. You still gotta buy from him and not try to save a few dollars going elsewhere, unless he called you a name or insulted your family.

(3) It is, imo, wrong to go to a store and give the impression that you are interested in buying a product from them when you intend all along to buy from someone else. But what about comparing the same set of speakers, say, to different competitive products at different dealers. Three stores all sell Speaker A. You compare it to Speaker B at store 1, Speaker C at store 2 and Speaker D at store 3. You decide to buy Speaker A. From which dealer do you buy Speaker A? My bet is the one who offers the best price. Would it be wrong to buy it at an even better price on-line? Immoral?

I buy on-line when there is no local dealer or buy from the dealer who gave me the most help. I try to buy from local dealers for the same reason I buy tires from the closest tire store. I like to support local small businesses because I want them to stick around (in my own interest - nothing to do with morality).

(4) You're on vacation and you visit a high end dealer to listen to the latest thing. You fall in love with it and spend an afternoon there. But, its too big to carry home, you don't want to pay for shipping and you prefer to be able to take it back to your local shop for service, so you leave the store fully intending to buy it back home. Is that moral? I say only if you tell the shopkeeper that you're on vacation and not a buyer before the demo and he volunteers to share his time with you.

Some of the dealers from whom I buy actually do business over the internet rather than locally, but I buy from them because they answer my questions, over the phone or by email. I wouldnt ask them any questions though if their prices weren't good, and that's the bottom line. If a local dealer wants to stay in business he needs to offer service and competitive prices.

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but the use of the wprds honesty and integrity is writ large from both perspectives.

I was a retailer in the late '70s and formed a single long term association with someone thereafter. I purchased easily $250,000 worth of eq

... apparently I rudely interrupted myself. So I purchased a lot of equipment for myself and others.

In the past two years, he has shown me B&W Nautilus, McIntosh, Parasound and Conrad Johnson equipment. In some of these instances when I purchased equipment, I did so through Audiogon. I simply could not afford to do otherwise.

From an integrity/honesty perspective, I told him each time I did. I gave him gifts including a case of fine wine to thank him and he knows very well that I will still purchase a proportionally high number of separates from him. As I stated to him once, without his help I would not have heard the B&W Nautilus line and for that I am forever grateful.

We are friends and I believe I've conducted myself in a forthright manner as one would when dealing with friends or any one else in an open fashion.

Besides, when he offers used equipment that I want, it would be purchased everytime.

Gotta go now... don't want to miss any Audiogon opportunities!