2. amps-preamps
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World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above?

Looking for the HOLY GRAIL in Audio? Here it is. I'm in my early sixties and retiring to my final system, which I was going to purchase during the past twelve months and decided to put on the brakes, and investigate whats out there as the most advanced engineered high end audio products for the money in the market place. As far as I'm concerned, the two top engineers in the world for the best Amp and Preamp at low prices are Bent Holter with Hegel Audio in Norway and Roger Sanders with Sanders Sound in Colorado. Why? The Hegel P-30 Pre-amp is a game changer, and will easily compete with Pre-amps at $30K and above. The FM Acoustics 268 Preamp that retails for $107K, uses a technology thats called "feedforward" instead of feedback.
Amps and Pre-amps since the early 80's have all used either global feedback, zero feedback or local feedback to filter out noise and lower distortion by sending and filtering the feedback current to filter capacitors or or an extra filter transformer. A small amount of voltage feedback occurs at the output stage in amps and preamps which goes back into the parts and boards causing noise and distortion which smears the quality of the music.The best Preamps in the world all have S/N noise ratios at 125 db's or above. The Hegel P-30 Preamp uses the same feedforward technology as FM Acoustics but is a more current design that Bent Holter calls "Sound Engine" patented technology that eliminates feedback which is why the P-30 Preamp has a S/N ratio of 132 db's, which has never been accomplished in high end audio with a Preamp costing $10K or below. The same applies to Roger Sanders Magtech amplifier which uses a patented linear voltage regulator that controls and regulates voltage with no excess voltage going back into the amp causing heat and distortion problems. The amp puts out 900 watts into 4ohms. Krell makes a pair of mono blocs that also use a similar voltage regulator. The amps are $100K a pair. HERES THE PERFECT SOLID STATE SYSTEM. A Hegel P-30 Preamp. A Sanders Magtech amp, A pair of Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers. The worlds finest SACD player, the Playback Designs MPS-5, designed by Andreas Koch, who invented SACD technology when he worked for Sony. He built the worlds first outboard DAC in 1982 and is legend in digital engineering. The MPS-5 is the most analog sounding player on the market which costs $17K. The Hegel P-30 is only $7500.00 and the Magtech amp is only $5K. The Aerials are $10K. Buy the solid core cables from Morrow Audio. They are low capacitance cables which matches up perfectly with these components. This combination sounds like the very best tube and solid state gear on the market. The whole system will cost about $42K but will sound as good as any system costing $200K. All of these products are game changers. If you want better looking cabinets and faceplates, then blow your money, but you will not get better performance for what this system has to offer. It is the HOLY GRAIL you are searching for and there is no better combination for the total cost of the system.
audiozen
knghifi
1,668 posts
 
Hmm! I was just using caps as an example. I was referring to everything that goes into a final product.

Customers don't just buy a design but a finished product that is built from a group of SELECTED parts. Just the fact you chose solder, wire, transformer, cap, tube socket, fuse ... A over B, you are essentially voicing the final product.

I've spoken to many "competent" designers and they prefer point to point wiring in that it's easier to test different parts to archieve the desire sound.
tmsorosk
1,013 posts
 
I always chuckle when I read these posts comparing a smaller system to a healthy one. I suppose a $42k system could out perform a $200K system, but only if the $200K system was not properly setup and synergised. Kind of like saying your Yugo out performed a Porshe on a test track, but forgot to mention the Porshe had a flat tire and was driven by someone who had never operated a motor vehicle before.
knghifi
1,668 posts
 
To take it a step further, end users voice their products with tweaks such as tube rolling, PC, fuses ... I find the very best design needs proper parts to maximize it's potential.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,935 posts
 
Solder: use a eutectic type to avoid bad solderjoints- pay attention to the alloys as they have different uses depending on the connection. IOW there is no one best solder for all solderjoints, but this is an engineering issue, not a matter of taste. If you find yourself disagreeing, I advise you to take a NASA soldering class or the like.

Wire: different types of wire have different applications and of course there is always a quality issue. However if you know what you are doing you can spec the correct wire for the application in such a way that one would be hard pressed to find a better wire. The wire you might use in a hand-wired high impedance application will be very different from a speaker connection. IOW, this is an engineering issue.

Transformers: We don't use output transformers so I will limit this to power transformers, but the quality here is important as customers don't like noisy parts and they have to hold up and not get too hot. Not surprisingly if the transformer is under-specked it can affect the sound... This is an engineering issue.

Caps: Many audiophiles will be amazed to learn that electrolytics can perform as well as good quality film caps; this has entirely to do with how well the designer understands the characteristics of the part (many don't.). Similarly, such understanding applies to film caps as well, for example what characteristics will work the best in an EQ circuit. A good cap will have good specs- you can see which one will sound better as a result. Certain principles are poorly understood; for example in coupling caps its a super bad idea to bypass a large cap with a smaller one (smearing occurs) but we see this all the time. IOW, this is all engineering.

I can go one but I hope that my point was made by the simple use of the word 'competent'. To put this another way, I spec V-Cap Teflons in our designs and did not have to audition them to know they would work fine (it was obvious from the specs), and this was proven in the results. If you know your engineering, you don't have to 'voice' (not saying that you don't verify your results either- that smacks of incompetence as well). Do I make myself clear? Voicing speaks to the designer not understanding the materials, swapping things in hoping for a decent outcome. My recommendation is to pay attention in class when you are at the university, however I hope its not a great shock to find out that a lot of designers didn't go to engineering school.

BTW since it was missed by some in a prior post I am only speaking to amps and preamps- definitely not speakers. Speakers can be a bit of an art, and there is the issue of how the amp and speaker interface, and the intentions of the designer. For more on this see:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php
facten
2,884 posts
 
Audiozen, a dose of humilitry would serve you well
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